ALAN HART: Yes indeed, show us all the map!

That’s a completely logical and totally reasonable demand.

By Alan Hart — Veterans Today

Better late than never, a very senior Palestinian official in Ramallah, Yasser Abed Rabbo, found the right way to challenge Israel and the U.S. As reported by AFP on 13 October, he said, “We officially demand that the US administration and the Israeli government provide a map of the borders of the state of Israel which they want us to recognise.”

That’s a completely logical and totally reasonable demand.

IF Israel was interested in peace on terms virtually all Palestinians and most other Arabs and Muslims everywhere could accept, the map provided would show Israel with borders as they were on the eve of the 1967 war. An accompanying note would say that, subject to agreement in final negotiations, Israel seeks minor border adjustments here and there. The note would also propose that Jerusalem should be an open, undivided city and the capital of two states.

If such a map with the note as above was presented, it would open the door to peace.

But the implementation of such land-for-peace deal would require the IDF to confront and forcibly remove illegal Jewish settlers who refused to leave; and that would open the door to a Jewish civil war – the price Israel’s Jews would have to pay for 62 years of contempt for and defiance of international law.

Of course it won’t happen. As I reveal in my book Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews (www.claritypress.com), why not was explained to me as far back as I980 by Shimon Peres. At the time he was the leader of the Labour Party, the main opposition to Prime Minister Menachem Begin’s Likud-led coalition. Peres was hoping to win Israel’s next election and deny Begin a second term in office. (President Carter was hoping and possibly praying for such an outcome). My purpose in talking with Peres in private was to establish whether or not he was interested in me acting as the linkman in a secret, exploratory dialogue between himself and PLO Chairman Arafat. Peres was interested but before I went off to Beirut to seek Arafat’s agreement to participate in a little conspiracy for peace, he said to me, “I fear it’s already too late”.

I asked Peres what he meant and this was his answer:

“Every day that passes sees new bricks on new settlements. Begin knows exactly what he’s doing. He’s stuffing the West Bank with settlers to create the conditions for a Jewish civil war. He knows that no Israeli prime minister is going down in history as the one who gave the order to the Jewish army to shoot Jews out of the West Bank”. Pause. “I’m not.”

When Peres spoke those words to me there were 70,000 illegal Jewish settlers on the occupied West Bank. If it was “too late” then, in 1980, how much more too late is it today when the number of illegal Jewish settlers is in excess of 500,000 and rising on a daily basis?

Some weeks after that conversation with Peres, I had reason to talk in private with Ezer Weizman, then serving as Defense Minister in Begin’s first-term government. He gave me extraordinary and frightening insight into why any future Israeli prime minister would not and possibly could not order the IDF to remove settlers from the West Bank by whatever force was necessary. At a point in our conversation he said the following, very slowly and with quiet emphasis:

This lunchtime Sharon convened a secret meeting of some of our generals and other top military and security people. They signed in blood an oath which commits them to join with the settlers and fight to the death to prevent any government of Israel withdrawing from the West Bank.” Pause. “I know that’s what happened at the meeting because I’ve checked it out and that’s why I was late for this appointment with you.” (I tell the full story of this conversation with Weizman in The Blood Oath, Chapter 12 of Volume Three of the American edition of Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews).

So no, there won’t be a Jewish civil war because no Israeli prime minister is ever going to risk provoking it.

So there will be no map. (I mean not one that could come even close to satisfying the Palestinian demand and need). Yasser Abed Rabbo knew that when he put the demand into words.

So what was the point of his challenge?

I presume he was hoping that Israel’s refusal to come up with a map based on more or less pre-June 1967 borders will help to convince more and more people, Americans especially, that Israel simply is not interested in peace on terms virtually all Palestinians and most other Arabs and Muslims everywhere could accept, and for which there is universal support (minus only the opposition of the Zionists and the mad, fundamentalist Christians who support them right or wrong, an opposition which in numbers of people is only a tiny, almost invisible fraction of the global whole).

If it does that, the challenge will not have been made in vain.

Footnote:

The day after Yasser Abed Rabbo issued the challenge, Israeli foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman had the gall (chutzpah) to say that Israel “has already made many gestures to the Palestinian Authority to facilitate restarting direct negotiations,” and now “the other side must show goodwill”. In one sense Liberman was right. Israel has made many gestures to the Palestinians. But all of them have been of the “Go to hell” type.

Alan Hart is a former ITN and BBC Panorama foreign correspondent who covered wars and conflicts wherever they were taking place in the world and specialized in the Middle East.  His Latest book Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews, is a three-volume epic in its American edition.  He blogs on www.alanhart.net and tweets on www.twitter.com/alanauthor.



The views expressed herein are the views of the author exclusively and not necessarily the views of VT, VT authors, affiliates, advertisers, sponsors, partners, technicians, or the Veterans Today Network and its assigns. LEGAL NOTICE - COMMENT POLICY

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28 Responses to "ALAN HART: Yes indeed, show us all the map!"

  1. Roger B  October 20, 2010 at 9:10 pm

    Ok I put a distorted fact in, my bad
    “the Ottoman Empire was broken up after it lost WW1 fighting for Hitler”

    Should have read ‘the Ottoman Empire was broken up after it lost WW1 fighting for Kaiser or the central powers”. Adding to that On 30 October 1918 the Ottoman Empire capitulated at Mudros.

  2. Roger B  October 20, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    Nelson; Firstly, you’re a Khazar, not a “Semite”

    I am glad I left DNA sample on this page to clear things up. Wow you really know your European history. That’s sarcasm in case you missed that. European Jews are not all khazars. Most of European jews from Europe do extend from Semitic origins. . Even Russian Jews are not all necessarily from so called khazer lineage. Know your history, real history not glossed over American books and even revisionist books. But of course that would mean you would have to know other languages.

    Nelson; In any case, “as far as we morally competent people are concerned, Israel is a geopolitical crime in progress. Israel has no “right” to exist. What right did the British (and/or any other third party) have to promise Arab land to Jews? None, that’s what, also …Second, the difference between you and I s that my “opinions” in matters such as this are based on moral reasoning, whereas yours are obviously not”.

    Wow I heard this before circa 1933 to 1945. Or should I go back to the Roman Empire and bring it forward. Moral reasoning by most standards is flawed and is usually emotional based.

    Nelson What right did the British and/or any other third party) have to promise Arab land to Jews?

    Well the legal body of the League of Nations was an international body like the U.N. is today and observed international law at the time. Very simplistically the Ottoman Empire was broken up after it lost WW1 fighting for Hitler. Certain countries were given power and protectorate status to run the defeated territory. Suggest you read the history of WW1 and the Ottoman Empire and its break up and of course some legal compendiums about it. But then again when emotion and anger runs amok, why bother with a history of facts.

    Nelson; It’s a matter of public record that the Jews started that war

    It’s also a matter of public record that incursions into the Sinai and green zone can be construed as an act of war.

    Nelson; Your worldview (just like that of your tribe in general), which you openly admit, boils down to “might makes right”.

    What a grand generalization. Actually I did not personally State a world view. I simply stated the affairs of human history as a fact. You do not know my world view, other than minor pieces of history. You obfuscate emotional ranting and misconstrued facts and use smear to justify your world view as valid. When facts are put on the plate you sweep them aside with derogatory derision.

    The United States and any country would not exist without legal precedent in international law. Israel was created under binding international law. Call it whatever you may but it is a legal state period. Even your words are folly Kent, quote “illegitimacy of the creation of the Rogue State of Israel” If it was an illegitimate creation then there is no legal binding state to contract international affairs. There would be no state of Israel. However you want to frame it in your mind means nothing to the international legal affairs of state. Israel is as legitimate as America or England. If you want to call her a rogue state then so be it. I have no issue over that. Oh and by the way I am not a Zionist.

  3. Ken Rechtstein  October 20, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Roger B. verbal diarrea is a tipical ZionTalmudicRational meant to sidetrack-confuse the issue at hand. The ZionTalmudicMafiaDons always bring in the “Conquest of America” or the “EU colonial past” ‘nd trow it in the face of their interlocutors each time the illegitimacy of the creation of the Rogue State of Israel is raised or they are asked not openly to murder US-EU citizens or create precedens for violation of international law. One thing for sure: the Zio mind’s only understod through the TALMUD-ZOHAR

  4. Nelson_2008  October 20, 2010 at 10:04 am

    RB says:

    Multiple wrongs have brought us to where we are today. Quite frankly the
    question is rhetorical or naive and does not deal in reality of history. As a species if we get two rights on a row we were lucky

    So … Bringing Palestinians over to America is a wrong?? Giving them their own land such as a sovereign reservation is a wrong? Israeli and Palestinian’s problem will not be over in a generation. This goes back to the breakup of the Ottoman Empire and the League of Nations giving the British who were one of three nations, mandate over the area that encompasses what was then known as Syria, Iraq and larger Israel including the Sinai, To be the homeland for the Jews. What was set forth in 1922 encompassed Israel the Sinai and then Syria part of what is now Jordan and Iraq. The 1967 war expanded to the green line
    boundaries’ set by the League of Nations. There is the map.

    ###########################################################

    ROTFL! It’s neither “naive” nor “rhetorical”; it’s a moral issue. You ask if cleansing the land of Palestinians is “wrong”. That poses the question: On what basis is ANYTHING right or wrong to you?

    You see, morally competent people believe in not doing to someone else that
    which they wouldn’t want done to themselves.

    In any case, as far as we morally competent people are concerned, Israel is a geopolitical crime in progress. Israel has no “right” to exist. What right did the British (and/or any other third party) have to promise Arab land to Jews? None, that’s what.

    ###########################################################

    RB says:

    Simple answer but not complete or accurate, Israel is a nation state and Jews compose a greater part of her population. Israel answered the call to massive force build up on the green line that was crossed first by aggressive military action. This is the excuse to use to say Israel attacked first. This is the same as saying the North Korean’s amassed troops on the DMZ and entered into it provoking the South Korean’s to scale up and blow the hell out of the North Koreans all in the DMZ. When it was all over with the green zone was cleared and Israel gave back the
    Sinai and the piece of Jordan that extends from the green line to
    Israeli border.

    ############################################################

    LOL! Spare me the stale Zionist bullshit. That’s like saying that Iraq
    started the war in 2003 by refusing to end its WMD programs.

    It’s a matter of public record that the Jews started that war. And it’s plain to see that it was a war whose purpose was to steal more land. Do I need to go look up and post some of the damning quotes here?

    “A number of senior Israeli military and political figures have subsequently admitted that Israel was not faced with a genuine threat of attack, and instead, deliberately chose war. Yitzhak Rabin, the Israeli army chief of staff during the war, later stated: “I do not believe that Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent into Sinai on May 14 would not have been enough to unleash an offensive against Israel. He knew it and we knew it.” (i) General Mattityahu Peled, a member of Israel’s general staff in 1967, opined that “the thesis according to which the danger of genocide weighed on us in June 1967, and that Israel struggled for its physical existence is only a bluff born and developed after the war.” (ii) Menachem Begin, not yet prime minister but a member of the Israeli cabinet, allowed that: “The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.”

    ############################################################

    R B says:

    Actually I don’t have a problem with what the Germans did simply because it was and is history to me. Right wrong or indifferent.

    #############################################################

    That’s a nice evasion. Like most of your tribesmen, you’re a hypocrite. Admit it.

    ##############################################################

    RB says:

    I am a German JEW; My Grandfather was killed in Dec of 41. My mother was born 2 months afterwards. Just as Christians come in many flavors, so do Jews. Reform Judaism was started in Germany around 200 years ago with the main Idea that the Torah was not the actual word of God. Reform Jews were Germans first and Jews secondary. They believed that to be a good, proper upstanding German citizen was foremost. The fact that I am an immigrant to
    this country and a nationalized citizen says history of any account does not tell a complete story.

    Quote RB “History is always clear unless you have lived it, then it is muddle conflagration.”

    Hence, when you read history from a book whether main stream or so called revisionist, it is all clear. If you lived the history then it is muddle conflagration. Your emotions run high over what you perceive are in justices or justices. If confused just reverse them as history has a way of doing. Being in the middle of making history … Time has a way of coloring the lenses and exaggerating the outcomes. Story tellers tells tales of glory and knights of honor, while a victim tells tales of one potatoe a day
    as a bread crumb. This is the nature of the human being.

    ################################################################

    It’s generally NOT all clear from reading a book. It’s more involved then that. There are at least two sides to every dispute; different authors have
    different perspectives; some authors are dishonest; etc. It’s more difficult than reading a book.

    #################################################################

    R B says:

    Actually this is simply your perception of things and a narrow slice of it, since this history extends back thousands of years. I could say the same of Iraq or other places. If you think your perceptions of the Palestinian issue is, quote; “a horrific geopolitical crime in progress” Then take a real open eye look and the Christians crusades from various facets, such as Arab and Jewish history written by respective writers of their nnationalities.

    Let’s try some of the darker aspects of European Christianity. Or how about modern USA history. Lets keep the battle off our shores and deal with small battles instead of full fledge wars and if we make some money along the way so be it, as a moral indictment which I mostly agree with. The point is … history is written in blood … right, wrong or indifferent. If you cannot understand all sides and the issues, or all parties across time which may
    encompass centuries or Millennia, then you don’t have a right to have a say. You’re just a spectator on the side line.

    It is so easy to pick a class or race or and group of people and vilify them. Notice how the word Jew is so easily used and yet in response you get what …anti-Semite. A truth here; I myself and many Jews do not use that as a retaliatory reaction to emotional outbursts, although I see it all the time for many races and creeds. Most will used a derogatory word or phrase against a person or group and they have never truly sat and talked with
    anyone from that group to understand who they are and what they
    are about. Another truth … What is even more astounding is the
    diversity of personalities in a single group. So maybe I should
    just call you a nazi to be on equal footing, But that is not e.

    You are a human being who has an opinion and options are like the weather. As long as it brings no harm and stays as discourse, then we are ok. But if it is brought to me with violence, I will go vet on you as in a veterinarian and a rabid animal. Fortunatly this is America and it very rarly comes to that.

    ################################################################

    Firstly, you’re a Khazar, not a “Semite”, so you and your fellow tribesmen don’t even have even a frivolous, twisted, rhetorical claim to that land, and if anybody here is an “anti-semite”, it’s you.

    Second, the difference between you and I is that my “opinions” in matters such as this are based on moral reasoning, whereas yours are obviously not.

    Your worldview (just like that of your tribe in general), which you openly admit, boils down to “might makes right”.

    That’s why it’s ok for Jews to butcher Palestinians and steal their land and plunder their organs. That’s why it’s ok for Jews to sell out and destroy the Gentile countries in which they reside. That’s why it’s ok for Jews to plot and carry out false-flag attacks like the Lavon affair, or the attack on the USS Liberty, or the 9/11 false-flag “terrorist” attack.

    Further discussion with you is pointless.

  5. hayduke  October 19, 2010 at 11:00 pm

    Please let’s get them all out of Florida too and send them back to Kazakhstan…

  6. Roger B  October 19, 2010 at 10:34 pm

    Roger B. said:
    “In over 300 years America took the land from the native people and gave back less then poor parcels of which were plundered further. Maybe when the Indians have their land back, then the Palestinians may just get theirs.
    Then again maybe America should make some more reservations and we can put Palestinians on them. Since they will be in remote locations you wont have to worry about Katusha rockets interrupting your reality TV and mickey Dee’s grease bombs.”
    ###################################################################

    Nelson_2008 says;
    So, two wrongs make a right? Is that what you’re trying to say?

    RB says
    Multiple wrongs have brought us to where we are today. Quite frankly the question is rhetorical or naive and does not deal in reality of history. As a species if we get two rights on a row we were lucky

    So … Bringing Palestinians over to America is a wrong?? Giving them their own land such as a sovereign reservation is a wrong? Israeli and Palestinian’s problem will not be over in a generation. This goes back to the breakup of the Ottoman Empire and the League of Nations giving the British who were one of three nations, mandate over the area that encompasses what was then known as Syria, Iraq and larger Israel including the Sinai, To be the homeland for the Jews. What was set forth in 1922 encompassed Israel the Sinai and then Syria part of what is now Jordan and Iraq. The 1967 war expanded to the green line boundaries’ set by the League of Nations. There is the map.

    ###################################################################
    Roger B. said:
    “ME I would have taken the parcels won in 1967 and say this is our recompense for the war and evicted the population that is not in accords to our ideals and beliefs. Simply live the way the Americans do. I”ll kill ya.”
    ###################################################################
    Nelson_2008 says;
    Firstly, Jews started that war, not Arabs.

    RB says
    Simple answer but not complete or accurate, Israel is a nation state and Jews compose a greater part of her population. Israel answered the call to massive force build up on the green line that was crossed first by aggressive military action. This is the excuse to use to say Israel attacked first. This is the same as saying the North Korean’s amassed troops on the DMZ and entered into it provoking the South Korean’s to scale up and blow the hell out of the North Koreans all in the DMZ. When it was all over with the green zone was cleared and Israel gave back the Sinai and the piece of Jordan that extends from the green line to Israeli border.

    Nelson_2008 says
    Second, if that’s the case, then you don’t have a problem with what the Germans supposedly did, right? The Germans had every right to discriminate against the Jews who obviously did not live in accordance with their “ideals and beliefs”, right? Or are you another typical hypocrite?
    Most Jews scream about the “Holocaust(TM)” while rationalizing their own genocidal ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians.

    R B says.
    Actually I don’t have a problem with what the Germans did simply because it was and is history to me. Right wrong or indifferent.

    I am a German JEW; My Grandfather was killed in Dec of 41. My mother was born 2 months afterwards. Just as Christians come in many flavors, so do Jews. Reform Judaism was started in Germany around 200 years ago with the main Idea that the Torah was not the actual word of God. Reform Jews were Germans first and Jews secondary. They believed that to be a good, proper upstanding German citizen was foremost. The fact that I am an immigrant to this country and a nationalized citizen says history of any account does not tell a complete story.
    Quote RB “History is always clear unless you have lived it, then it is muddle conflagration.”

    Hence, when you read history from a book whether main stream or so called revisionist, it is all clear. If you lived the history then it is muddle conflagration. Your emotions run high over what you perceive are in justices or justices. If confused just reverse them as history has a way of doing. Being in the middle of making history … Time has a way of coloring the lenses and exaggerating the outcomes. Story tellers tells tales of glory and knights of honor, while a victim tells tales of one potatoe a day was a bread crumb. This is the nature of the human being.
    ##################################################################

    Roger B. said:
    “Live as a Israeli for a couple of years in Israel, then then have a opinion.
    Instead of being arm chair quarterbacks who at best may have read half a book and does have a clue about what is really happening.”
    ##################################################################

    Nelson_2008 says
    “Israel” is a horrific geopolitical crime in progress. Nobody has to live there to understand that. Being that you brought it up, however, why don’t you move there?

    R B says.
    Actually this is simply your perception of things and a narrow slice of it, since this history extends back thousands of years. I could say the same of Iraq or other places. If you think your perceptions of the Palestinian issue is, quote; “a horrific geopolitical crime in progress” Then take a real open eye look and the Christians crusades from various facets, such as Arab and Jewish history written by respective writers of their nationalities.

    Let’s try some of the darker aspects of European Christianity. Or how about modern USA history. Lets keep the battle off our shores and deal with small battles instead of full fledge wars and if we make some money along the way so be it, as a moral indictment which I mostly agree with. The point is … history is written in blood … right, wrong or indifferent. If you cannot understand all sides and the issues, or all parties across time which may encompass centuries or Millennia, then you don’t have a right to have a say. You’re just a spectator on the side line.

    It is so easy to pick a class or race or and group of people and vilify them. Notice how the word Jew is so easily used and yet in response you get what …anti-Semite. A truth here; I myself and many Jews do not use that as a retaliatory reaction to emotional outbursts, although I see it all the time for many races and creeds. Most will used a derogatory word or phrase against a person or group and they have never truly sat and talked with anyone from that group to understand who they are and what they are about. Another truth … What is even more astounding is the diversity of personalities in a single group. So maybe I should just call you a nazi to be on equal footing, But that is not me. You are a human being who has an opinion and options are like the weather. As long as it brings no harm and stays as discourse, then we are ok. But if it is brought to me with violence, I will go vet on you as in a veterinarian and a rabid animal. Fortunatly this is America and it very rarly comes to that.

    Move to Israel? I was an immigrant and became a naturalized American Citizen. Something I think all born citizens should go through. I Love this country and the ideals from which it was created. I volunteered to serve her from my ideal that I owed her. This country is far from perfect but it is my country and I will do what is necessary to make her better. As for Israel … If I went there I would be a bastard in your and the wolds eyes, but I would be fighting for peace for my country.

    I still stand, that if Israel evicted all Arabs in 1967 they would have blustered with the world but peace would have reigned and Arab states would be at peace with Israel now and the evicted families would have a sad story and more of them would be living a better life. Then Again who would have stepped up to take them in? There is the crux This is simply my opinion and observation of human history. I hope the only middle east democracy survives it birth pangs and becomes a shining example.
    ##################################################################

    Roger B. said:
    “History is always clear unless you have lived it, then it is muddle conflagration.”
    ##################################################################

    Nelson_2008 says
    Actually, “History” is generally a pack of lies written by the “winners”.
    Real History, where the object is to understand what actually happened, is known as “revisionist” History.

    RB said.
    Really!! Who would have known!! See point above since this is all so clear to you. Get your feet muddy and make history, right, wrong or indifferent. Then retell it after it has warmed over by many years and tell about it to some young person wanting to know what really happened. History is like archeology. You can place this here or there, other so called facts then add the emotional baggage that is missing from archeology and you have history or the modern news.
    #####################################################################

    Roger B. said:
    If you live in peace, then you are living between having been conquered or have conquered …or you are dead.
    #####################################################################
    Nelson_2008 says
    So what’s your point? That might makes right?

    RB say;
    Actually that is exactly what has and is happening in this world. Peace has never won out. It is a great fantasy we delude ourselves into, but then reality is what it is. So without the Mongol invasion of the northern Europeans I would not have my beloved Sauerkraut LOL.

    So what is better … have squabbles and lose a million people on both sides over a hundred years, or go to war, kill a million people and have peace for one hundred years. This should scare you because this is the question politicians weight all the time and your just meat for the cannon. The decision is unequivocally war in whatever flavor you may call it.

    There is history in a nutshell. History is written in short fiction to make it palatable for the masses

  7. Mike  October 19, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    It was never a war. It was a land grab. Palestine never declared war. Palestinian’s and Jews lived side by side until the Zionist movement destroyed that. Once upon a time Jew meant from the region of Judea. By your logic you do not belong in Florida.

  8. Danton  October 19, 2010 at 8:35 pm

    James, or whatever your real name is in Hebrew, why don’t you and the rest of the Israeli trolls get the hell off this site so that real people can have their discussions in peace.

  9. Debbie Menon  October 19, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    … And this is what the current Israeli Regime thinks of America and Americans:

    http://mycatbirdseat.com/2010/07/raimondo-bibi-unmasked/

  10. Debbie Menon  October 19, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    Besides Mazin’s dispatches, here’s something those not living in Israel should know about the current Regime occupying Israel:

    http://mycatbirdseat.com/2010/10/meet-the-supremacist-jewish-rebbe-meachem-mendel-schneerson/

  11. Nelson_2008  October 19, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    Roger B. said:

    “In over 300 years America took the land from the native people and gave back less then poor parcels of which were plundered further. Maybe when the Indians have their land back, then the Palestinians may just get theirs.

    Then again maybe America should make some more reservations and we can put Palestinians on them. Since they will be in remote locations you wont have to worry about Katusha rockets interrupting your reality TV and mickey Dee’s grease bombs.”

    ###################################################################

    So, two wrongs make a right? Is that what you’re trying to say?

    ###################################################################

    Roger B. said:

    “ME I would have taken the parcels won in 1967 and say this is our recompense for the war and evicted the population that is not in accords to our ideals and beliefs. Simply live the way the Americans do. I”ll kill ya.”

    ###################################################################

    Firstly, Jews started that war, not Arabs.

    Second, if that’s the case, then you don’t have a problem with what the Germans supposedly did, right? The Germans had every right to discriminate against the Jews who obviously did not live in accordance with their “ideals and beliefs”, right? Or are you another typical hypocrite?

    Most Jews scream about the “Holocaust(TM)” while rationalizing their own genocidal ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians.

    ##################################################################
    Roger B. said:

    “Live as a Israeli for a couple of years in Israel, then then have a opinion.
    Instead of being arm chair quarterbacks who at best may have read half a book and does have a clue about what is really happening.”

    ##################################################################

    “Israel” is a horrific geopolitical crime in progress. Nobody has to live there to understand that. Being that you brought it up, however, why don’t you move there?

    ##################################################################
    Roger B. said:

    “History is always clear unless you have lived it, then it is muddle conflagration.”

    ##################################################################

    Actually, “History” is generally a pack of lies written by the “winners”.
    Real History, where the object is to understand what actually happened, is known as “revisionist” History.

    #####################################################################
    Roger B. said:

    If you live in peace, then you are living between having been conquered or have conquered …or you are dead.

    #####################################################################

    So what’s your point? That might makes right?

  12. Debbie Menon  October 19, 2010 at 6:39 pm

    Exactly Anthony.

    This just in from Mazin Qumsiyeh, you probably get his daily dispatches from Occupied Palestine.

    “Under a most extremist government in Israel’s 62 year history, the extent of
    the absurdities here have accelerated to become almost unbelievable. From
    attacking humanitarian ships in International waters, to laws to strip
    Israelis of their citizenship, to laws to demand loyalty by non-Jews to a
    Jewish state (imagine if South Africa under apartheid demanded loyalty to
    the white government), to laws to punish peaceful protesters (Abdullah Abu
    Rahma sentenced to one year under the charge of “incitement” for merely
    engaging in nonviolent protests in Bil’in), to laws to allow criminal
    prosecution of those who call for boycotts, to arresting children hit by a
    colonial settler car while driving in the children’s neighborhood that the
    settler is trying to take over*, and the list goes on. My study of history
    tells me that Israeli governments engaged in such irrational behavior the
    year before every major uprising in the past 62 years. One is tempted to
    accept the notion that “what we learn from history is that we (humans) learn
    nothing from history”. But we must maintain our faith in humanity and that
    maybe, just maybe, there are still enough rational people of all faiths and
    persuasions to salvage this (un)Holy Land from total descent into fascism
    and self-destruction.”

  13. Roger B  October 19, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    In over 300 years America took the land from the native people and gave back less then poor parcels of which were plundered further. Maybe when the Indians have their land back, then the Palestinians may just get theirs.

    Then again maybe America should make some more reservations and we can put Palestinians on them. Since they will be in remote locations you wont have to worry about Katusha rockets interrupting your reality TV and mickey Dee’s grease bombs.

    ME I would have taken the parcels won in 1967 and say this is our recompense for the war and evicted the population that is not in accords to our ideals and beliefs. Simply live the way the Americans do. I”ll kill ya.

    Live as a Israeli for a couple of years in Israel, then then have a opinion.
    Instead of being arm chair quarterbacks who at best may have read half a book and does have a clue about what is really happening.

    History is always clear unless you have lived it, then it is muddle conflagration.
    If you live in peace, then you are living between having been conquered or have conquered …or you are dead.

    I am a proud American Vet who and volunteered to serve her people then and now, plus I am a JEW.

  14. Jason  October 19, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Interesting arithmetic – the incredible numbers

    Let’s have a look at a typical account by one of the seemingly endless number of survivors: Olga Lengyel’s Five Chimneys: a woman survivor’s true story of Auschwitz (Granada/ Ziff-Davis, 1947, 1972).

    According to Lengyel, ‘After June, 1943, the gas chamber was reserved exclusively for Jews and Gypsies.. Three hundred and sixty corpses every half-hour, which was all the time it took to reduce human flesh to ashes, made 720 per hour, or 17,280 corpses per twenty-four hour shift. And the ovens, with murderous efficiency, functioned day and night. However, one must also reckon the death pits, which could destroy another 8,000 cadavers a day. In round numbers, about 24,000 corpses were handled each day. An admirable production record, one that speaks well for German industry.’ (Paperback edition, pp80-81). [No trace of any remains of or in ‘death pits’ has been found.]

    This implies almost 100,000 corpses per four working days, or a million in 40 days, or six million in 240 days (eight months). Notice the bald precision of the figures without any explanation, the utter confidence in the reader’s credulity.

    The blurb on the cover of the book quotes the New York Herald-Tribune: “Passionate, tormenting”. Albert Einstein, the promoter of the US construction of the bombs used at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, is quoted as offering “You have done a real service by letting the ones who are now silent and most forgotten speak.”

    Could this claim be a misprint?

    Kitty Hart, in spite of her name a Jewish survivor born in Poland, fully confirms these figures:

    ‘Working around the clock, the four units together could dispose of about 18,000 bodies every twenty-four hours, while the open pits coped with a further 8,000 in the same period.’ (p 118; Return to Auschwitz – paperback edition by Granada (1981, 1983).

    According to the cover blurb, ‘The subject of the award-winning Yorkshire television documentary of the same name.’ ‘Both engaging and harrowing…an important addition to the growing holocaust literature, very little of which conveys so courageously both the daily torment and the will to survive’ – Martin Gilbert, The Times.

  15. Jason  October 19, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Elie Wiesel vs Encyclopaedia Britannica

    Wiesel has been one of the most prominent spokesmen for the very sizeable group of people known as Holocaust survivors. [According to Norman Finkelstein of the City University of New York in his book The Holocaust Industry published in the year 2000, ‘The Israeli Prime Minister’s office recently put the number of “living Holocaust survivors” at nearly a million’ (p.83)]. Wiesel has chaired the US Holocaust Memorial Council and has been the recipient of a Congressional Gold Medal and Nobel Peace Prize..

    Time Magazine, March 18 1985:

    ‘How had he survived two of the most notorious killing fields [Auschwitz and Buchenwald] of the century? “I will never know” Wiesel says. “I was always weak. I never ate. The slightest wind would turn me over. In Buchenwald they sent 10,000 to their deaths every day. I was always in the last hundred near the gate. They stopped. Why?”

    Compare this with Encyclopaedia Britannica (1993), under ‘Buchenwald’:

    “In World War II it held about 20,000 prisoners.. Although there were no gas chambers, hundreds perished monthly through disease, malnutrition, exhaustion, beatings and executions.”

  16. Toodleooass  October 19, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Show us the map of Palestine, with borders. Perhaps you could use a grade-school textbook. Oh, look, no borders!

  17. James  October 19, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Why the borders on the eve of the war? Why not after the war? Who won that war? Seems there is quite a lot of Bias and Bigotry here. Why not ask the Palestinian official to show any official documentation proving ownership by any officially recognized Palestinian people on either of those dates or any time before? There is none! This whole things is a bogus argument by the Arab world to justify making Israel a target. Everyone knows who has the oldest official recorded ownership to these lands including the Holy site. If you think this is ever going to happen, I’ve got some land I’d like to sell you in Florida. Good Luck!

  18. Steve Wiseman  October 19, 2010 at 8:19 am

    The Israeli flag says it all…the Rothschild crest in blue…with two blue parallel bands ..one band represents the Nile River the other, the Euphrates…and the white background represents parts of Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and all of Palestine to make the dream of a greater Israel come true…

  19. Toodleooass  October 19, 2010 at 2:29 am

    Do the Palestinians have some confusion about where the borders are?

    “Armed soldier out front should have told you.”

  20. Nelson_2008  October 19, 2010 at 2:06 am

    Hello,

    Here are a few things to consider for your next 9/11 video:

    The first, is the U.S. government document: The National Security Strategy of the U.S. of A, for 2002. On page 28 of that document, the U.S. government describes the events of 9/11/2001 as “open[ing] vast, new opportunities”. That’s a particularly cold-blooded way to talk about the murders of 3000 people on U.S. soil, and the illegal, immoral wars of aggression that have subsequently murdered over a mmillion people.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/national/nss-020920.pdf

    It’s too bad the Iranian President doesn’t know about this official document. It’s be nice to have a real leader ask the U.S. government what kind of “vast, new opportunties” you get by way of mass murder.

    Second, here’s a damning little piece of investigative journalism that, in my view, indisputably proves not only that the WTC buildings were demolished by way of Controlled Demolition (and of course we knew this already), but it also implicates certain parties.

    http://colorado911visibility.org/2009/05/26/%E2%80%9Cchief-engineer%E2%80%9D-hyman-brown-by-patrick-marks/

  21. Steve  October 19, 2010 at 1:25 am

    It took the Plestinian leadership this long to come out with that? Among their supporters this has been a common argument for a long time.

  22. William Whitten  October 18, 2010 at 9:39 pm

    Anyone with real vison knows that it is not a “map” it is the globe…the whole planet which is what Zion wants.

    The US is already occupied territory of the Zionist Golem. It is US firepower that protects that shitty little country.

    \\ll//

  23. Mike  October 18, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    US does not care about Israel’s borders, we’ll support their flexible border plan. US wholeheartedly supports Wars for Israel, it all started nearly a decade ago under a false flag attack.
    9/11 and Israel, here:
    http://www.iuniverse.com/Bookstore/BookDetail.aspx?BookId=SKU-000190526

  24. AS  October 18, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    good point here… israel has no borders…. because it is in expansion like the universe ….

  25. Nelson_2008  October 17, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    And then later, Rabin appeared to be coming to his senses, and then they assassinated him for it.

  26. Nelson_2008  October 17, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    This is why the U.S. has to stop the financial, military, and political support of Israel; and this is why we need a real investigation into the Jewish supremacist false-flag attack of 9/11/2001.

  27. Frank Stew  October 16, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    THOSE WERE PERES AND RABIN WHO ALLOWED AND HELPED THE FIRST
    SETTLEMENTS LATE 60 EARLY 70 S

    IT WAS THE LABOR PARTY DEEDS

    but now the labor party is not relevant

    thats cause of the suicide bombings in israel

  28. Gray  October 16, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    So……

    “He knows that no Israeli prime minister is going down in history as the one who gave the order to the Jewish army to shoot Jews out of the West Bank”. Pause. “I’m not.”

    Well, the “Jews” in the West Bank are KKK Flunk-Outs, Militant Zionist Terrorists
    of this Ilk:

    “How to Kill Goyim and Influence People:”
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article26275.htm

    “Zionist Rabbi told troops to show Gaza no mercy”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeH0dsa4LJI

    “CNN report: IDF sexually abused Palestinian children”
    Damning CNN report cites uncorroborated sexual abuse charges of Palestinian children detained by IDF; army says detention of minors undertaken in line with international law, cannot respond to abuse charges as no details provided
    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3952077,00.html

    And since the same “Settlers” are IDF Butchers……

    GARETH PORTER: UN Fact-Finding Mission Says Israelis “Executed” US Citizen Furkan Dogan
    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/09/29/gareth-porter-un-fact-finding-mission-says-israelis-executed-us-citizen-furkan-dogan/

    …..and the “Jews” are not the Pitiful, & Staged Fodder depicted by Holocaust Exploitation Industry but, rather, Demented, mad Dog, Racist Murderers of all non Zionists (they kill “self Hating Jews with the same glee as Goyim etc)……

    There’s a good argument that “Shooting THESE “Jews” out of Occupied Palestine is SELF DEFENSE …….

    Now, where’s that Cruise Missile of mine……..I had it just a minute ago next to the remote…..?

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