“Wikileaks is a big and dangerous US intelligence Con Job which will likely be used to police the Internet”….F. William Engdahl

“supporting WikiLeaks founder, Julius Assange and..calling for revolution due to government cover-ups are intended results of a counterintelligence reverse tactic”…Bob Levin, FBI whistleblower

By Gordon Duff STAFF WRITER/Senior Editor

I can only say one word, flabbergasted.  When I got the article by Larry Elder, a journalist who is known for finding the real story behind the story, I nearly dropped.  The recent release of diplomatic cables, described by former National Security Advisor Zbiegnew Brzezinski as “seeded” with “pointed” facts to “favor an agenda” by an “intelligence agency” clearly restores long discredited George “W” Bush to a place of honor.

“Bush, hammered by the insidious “Bush Lied, People Died” mantra, endured one of the most vicious smears against any president in history. He is owed an apology.

When Hollywood makes ‘The Vindication of George W. Bush,’ maybe Sean Penn can play the lead.”

Bush, assaulted on all sides, his book tours besieged by protests, a president who left office with a country reeling in debt, losing two wars and now with his former vice president, Dick Cheney,  indicted for bribery, is a hard sell as a hero.  Before this, Wikileaks championed the war on Iraq and its planned expansion into Iran, a continuing theme, as Brzezinski points out, always the “point” of Wikileaks, war on Iran.  Everything always goes there.  “Hello, how’s your mom, wasn’t that an Iranian I saw sneaking into her garage…?”


Larry Elder isn’t lying.  Wikileaks is clearly trying, so very hard, to vindicate Bush and prove Saddam had a nuclear program, something proven dead wrong before 9/11, proven dead wrong in 2003 and in every other source on earth other than Wikileaks, long accepted as always “dead wrong.”  Isn’t the fact that the “sexed up” intel on WMD’s was long proven dead wrong the reason for the Chilcott Inquiry in Britain?  Hasn’t Tony Blair been assailed for years for having WMD (weapons of mass destruction)  intelligence on Iraq “sexed up?”

Now that the death of Dr. David Kelly, the man who took Blair to task over this is now being looked at as a murder, one would think that trying to prove the utterly unproveable would be a hard sell.  Wikileaks doesn’t think so.  In fact, there is nothing Wikileaks doesn’t think it can’t do.

Elder scoured the Wikileaks “output” and makes a powerful case for the 2003 invasion.  From his article at

“The WikiLeaks de facto declassification of privileged material makes it case closed: Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction — and intended to restart his program once the heat was off.”

Elder then quotes Noah Schloctman, described as “a nonresident fellow at the liberal Brookings Institution” and editor of Wired Magazine.  Wired, of course, is owned by Advance Publications, you know, The New Yorker, Tatler, Brides Magazine and dozens of very conservative newspapers.  This is Noah Schloctman as quoted by Larry Elder as quoted by, oh, you get the picture;

“By late 2003, even the Bush White House’s staunchest defenders were starting to give up on the idea that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. But WikiLeaks’ newly-released Iraq war documents reveal that for years afterward, U.S. troops continued to find chemical weapons labs, encounter insurgent specialists in toxins and uncover weapons of mass destruction (emphasis added). … Chemical weapons, especially, did not vanish from the Iraqi battlefield. Remnants of Saddam’s toxic arsenal, largely destroyed after the Gulf War, remained. Jihadists, insurgents and foreign (possibly Iranian) agitators turned to these stockpiles during the Iraq conflict — and may have brewed up their own deadly agents.”


These are the seven reports that Elder, and, by proxy, Schloctman, are referring to as taken from the Iraq War Logs;

1.      10th June 2006:  Al Qaida in Iraq insurgents plan to attack a forward operating base in Karmah with chemical weapons…The insurgents plan to deploy their chemical weapon using mortars as a delivery system. (Analyst Comments: In Iraq AQI has tried several times to employ chemical weapons against coalition forces).

2.      16th August 2008:  CBRN personnel has tested the rounds twice with M8 paper and J CAM. EOD (Explosive Ordnance Disposal), and chemical recon element assess that the chemical … tested positive for chemical agent. EOD reports 12 x full chemical rounds. 14 x damaged rounds are either leaking or empty. The cache consisted of 26 contaminated  rounds and 14 empty 155mm  rounds.

3.      13th October 2005:  As of late September 2005, Al-Qa’ida in Iraq elements allegedly planned to attack Abu Ghurayb prison in early to mid-October using an unspecified number of mortars and car bombs…. AQIZ elements allegedly planned to use 20 “chemical munitions” brought from Syria.

4.      28th January 2006:  The ten are chemical weapons specialists and came to Iraq to support the chemical weapons operations of Hizballah Islam I. (Field comment — The chemical operations of Hizballah Islam I were previously reported as Al Qa’ida Iraq operations, the ten unidentified men are chemical weapons specialists from Syria)…The ten unidentified men were taken to Is’Hagey Iraq, where the unidentified chemicals weapons … are stored. The chemical weapons were brought from Syria to Iraq on 21 January 2006.

5.      29th December 2006:  As of 27 December 2006, three unidentified Bedouins who were alleged Iraq AQI Operatives planned to transport chemical munitions from Al Judayda, Saudi Arabia, to Nugra Al Salman District, a border area in Al Muthanna Province, Iraq …Subsequently, Iraq AQI operatives planned use the munitions to attack hospitals, outdoor markets, and US military forces in Al Basrah, Al Amarah and An Nasiriyah on or after 15 January 2007.

6.      5th March 2007:  AQI insurgency group is planning a rocket attack on several targets in the Baghdad International Zone and a US base in Al Rashdiyah by using Katusha rockets filled with unknown chemicals… these rockets were described as being three meters long and are modified in order to carry the extra weight. (Field Comment – the source was unable to provide the type of chemical and stated that these rockets probably originated from Iran).

7.      20th September 2007:  As of late September 2007, Islamic State of Iraq (ISI) militants in Mosul, Iraq were planning an imminent attack on Tall ‘Afar using rockets with Chlorine gas or another chemical compound … The rockets had a range of more than 20 Kilometers, and an impact radius of 50 to 100 square meters. (Comment: the Arabic word “Sarukh” was used to describe the rockets).


Let’s take a moment and examine these “Wikileak” reports that now are cited as vindicating President Bush, cited by many as reason for war on Iraq.  Is there anything in them that would, perhaps, make them less than credible and even “sexed up” like the documents the Chilcott Inquiry is looking into now?

Taken from the above reports, we find the following curious uses of “weasel words.”  June 10, 2006, we have “insurgents” but we know nothing but they are ‘planning” something they have “tried”but never done since, well, when did all this start?  1990?  30 years?

Then we are testing “rounds” we found on the ground somewhere.  We test them twice.  They are contaminated.  Surprise, surprise.  With areas of Iraq testing as having radiation levels 38 times higher than Hiroshima after a nuclear attack, it takes two tests to find “contamination.  It gets even better, we move to January 28, 2006 and now manage to tie, not only Hizbollah and Iran but Syria as well, chemical weapons brought from Syria, to Iraq and stored but never used, never found.  This is the purest form of “sexed up” phony intelligence, totally imaginary, Bush era baloney resurrected by Julian Assange.  Nobody listened then but repackaged as a Wikileak, these hollow fabrications are now taken by some Journalists as “hard fact.”

On December 29, it gets better.  Our informants are three unidentified Bedouins who were “alleged.”  OK, we have to stop there, we have two weasel words in one sentence.  We have added another country to the Wikileaks “axis of evil,” Saudi Arabia.  The embarrassing disclosures of the recent Wiki-dump, not only discredit the Saudi’s, showing them as allies of Israel, but might they also discredit this “Wikileaked” report as well?

March 5, more of the same.  I feel like I am with Napoleon, walking back from Moscow in the snow, barefoot and hungry.  This “Wikileak” tells us that rockets have “unknown chemicals,” weasel word number one and that they “probably” come from Iran.  DONG! The “two weasel words in one sentence” bell has run again.  My lunch contains unknown chemicals, “probably” from Iran.

Who wrote these reports?  None of the incidents warned of ever happened.  Some of the reports came from “private contractors” who were illegally tasked, according to the Department of Defense sources.  “Private contractors” means “rent-a-cops.”

“Go ask those three guys with the camel if they know of any rockets from Iran that are carrying chlorine gas made in Saudi Arabia.  While you are over there, get me some advice on my 401k, I am taking a beating in the bond market.”


US Army intelligence officers who authored some of the reports in Wikileaks reviewed their own work.  They indicated that reports were missing, incomplete, some with major changes and many significantly altered.

Wikileaks didn’t write the article vindicating Bush, it only supplied, as Zbigniew Brzezinski call it, “pointed leaks seeded by an intelligence agency to serve a private agenda.”  Our sources show those leaks, not only “seeded” but also falsified.  This is how the Wikileaks story finishes and finally proves that Bush was right all along, how Wikileaks smashes, once and for all, everyone opposing the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that have killed untold numbers.  From Larry Elder and his “Wikileak” article;

The Associated Press called yellowcake “the seed material for higher-grade nuclear enrichment” and said that it “also can be enriched for use in reactors and, at higher levels, nuclear weapons using sophisticated equipment.”

DONG! We just hit the “weasel word” jackpot of all time.  Lets count them:

  1. “seed material”  You could possibly, sort of, maybe, under some circumstances make something out of this that could hurt someone if enough of it fell on them.
  2. “higher grade”  Weapons use 95% enriched uranium.  Yellow cake is a form of processed ore.  You can buy “yellow cake” for under $10 a pound (market price).  By US Army standards for radiation hazards, “yellow cake” could be used as a food additive.
  3. “also can be”  Read “was not.”
  4. “at higher levels”  Read “were not”
  5. “using sophisticated equipment”  Read “that did not”…..exist.


Larry Elder found what he wanted in Wikileaks.  He wanted to save the tarnished reputation of George “W” Bush and Wikileaks was there.  When Benjamin Netanyahu is accused of being a “genocidal war monger,” Wikileaks is to his rescue too.  This is what Julian Assange had to say about Netanyahu as reported in the Israeli paper, Haaretz:

“Haaretz – WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange on Wednesday defended his disclosure of classified U.S. documents by singling out Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu as an example of a world leader who believes the publications will aid global diplomacy.

“We can see the Israeli Prime Minister [Benjamin] Netanyahu coming out with a very interesting statement that leaders should speak in public like they do in private whenever they can,” Assange told Time Magazine in an interview on Wednesday, days after his online whistleblower published thousands of secret diplomatic cables.

“He believes that the result of this publication, which makes the sentiments of many privately held beliefs public, are promising a pretty good [indecipherable] will lead to some kind of increase in the peace process in the Middle East and particularly in relation to Iran,” Assange said.

“I just noticed today Iran has agreed to nuclear talks. Maybe that’s coincidence or maybe it’s coming out of this process, but it’s certainly not being canceled by this process,” he added.”

Many journalists have been unable to find this quote, particularly after stories tying Assange to meetings with Israeli officials in Geneva.  Many, ignoring the experts, ignoring hard evidence, keep hanging onto the Assange myth, looking for ways to serve a personal agenda or revealing dark truths about their own allegiances.   The simple revelations in the Israeli press alone, should have been enough to warn the responsible members of the press they were being duped.  Haaretz, an Israeli paper, make the accusations clear and shows how strongly were supported 8 days ago.


Haaretz also states:

“Also Wednesday, a senior Turkish official blamed Israel for the WikiLeaks release.  Addressing reporters, Huseyin Celik, deputy leader of Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s AKP party, hinted that Israel engineered the leak of hundreds of thousands of United States diplomatic cables as a plot to pressure the Turkish government.

“One has to look at which countries are pleased with these,” Celik was quoted as saying. ‘Israel is very pleased. Israel has been making statements for days, even before the release of these documents.’ Documents were released and they immediately said, ‘Israel will not suffer from this. How did they know that?‘ Celik asked.”


This is directly from a December 2, 2010 article in Haaretz, one of Israel’s largest newspapers, yet journalists around the world, not just Larry Elder, are investigating these charges that come from, not only Turkey but top American officials like Brzezinski or investigative journalists like Wayne Madsen or military experts like Dr. Alan Sabrosky;

“The one striking exception in all of this global tour de farce <sic.> is the Middle East. Certainly, even aside from Wikileaks founder Julian Assange’s fulsome praise of Binyamin Netanyahu, what is said and what is not, represent the message Israel and its partisans in the US Government (itself heavily Zionist and “Israel First” in orientation) want the world to hear, believe and accept. The message coming across in the US diplomatic cables could have been designed and drafted by Avigdor Lieberman, and who knows? It may have been…

The other part of the covert theme is the apparent absence of anything tough on Israel, which means that anything of the sort is Top Secret or better, was excised from the cables that were released, or simply doesn’t matter at all to anyone in or out of the Middle East. The Arab nations for many years have feared a real nuclear threat from Israel, not a fabricated threat by Iran, but nothing like that comes across, despite 60-plus years of hostility from most to Israel and its ambitions.

Far more significant to me is the utter lack to date of scathing commentaries on Israel and its policies, leadership and actions from SOMEWHERE in the world. Even if Arab leaders felt there was no point in doing so with the Americans, most others would not feel so constrained. Something surely must have come to the attention of the US ambassadors to (e.g.) Turkey, South Africa, Brazil and Ireland, just to name a few of the many who have bitterly condemned Israel, and especially the disgusting duo of Netanyahu and Lieberman to say nothing of their predecessors, for what they have done to Palestine and the Lebanon; for Operation Cast Lead; for the settlements; for flagrant violations of UN Resolutions and the murder of UN officials; for Israel’s hostility to the Goldstone Report; for the blockade; for land expropriation; and for sheer thuggery and brutality.

But nothing like that is there, or at least has yet surfaced, which makes me increasingly inclined to see this as just another game of rhetorical smoke and mirrors, with a lot of real cables and real victims (like the poor US soldier who presumably gave Assange at least some of the cables), but with many or most of the Middle East cables “cooked” if not fabricated outright.

So these, at least, are probably the handiwork of Israeli-Americans or just Israelis putting their own spin on things, included in a mass of otherwise legitimate cables as camouflage and for validation. An Australian news website concluded that “[the] WikiLeaks cables [are] the 9/11 of world diplomacy.” Too, too true – same source, different vehicle and venue, all helping pave the road to yet another needless war in Israel’s service, this time against Iran. The gods weep — but not, presumably, Yahweh.”


Germany author and journalist F. William Engdahl sees the hand of the Mossad’s partner organization, the CIA in Wikileaks that and the very real threat against the internet, which Wikileaks, with its “ham handed” theatrics seems to be inadvertently supporting?  Or is it inadvertent?  Engdahl on Wikileaks:

“The story on the surface makes for a script for a new Oliver Stone Hollywood thriller. A 39-year old Australian hacker holds the President of the United States and his State Department hostage to a gigantic cyber “leak,” unless the President leaves Julian Assange and his Wikileaks free to release hundreds of thousands of pages of sensitive US Government memos. A closer look at the details, so far carefully leaked by the most ultra-establishment of international media such as the New York Times, reveals a clear agenda. That agenda coincidentally serves to buttress the agenda of US geopolitics around the world from Iran to Russia to North Korea.

“Wikileaks is a big and dangerous US intelligence Con Job which will likely be used to police the Internet”….F. William Engdahl

But for anyone who has studied the craft of intelligence and of disinformation, a clear pattern emerges in the Wikileaks drama. The focus is put on select US geopolitical targets, appearing as Hillary Clinton put it ‘to justify US sanctions against Iran.’ They claim North Korea with China’s granting of free passage to Korean ships despite US State Department pleas, send dangerous missiles to Iran. Saudi Arabia’s ailing King Abdullah reportedly called Iran’s President a Hitler.”


Deborah Dupre in The Examiner, wrote on FBI whistleblower, Bob Levin’s impressions of Wikileaks;

“An FBI whistleblower has alerted that supporting WikiLeaks founder, Julius Assange and subsequently calling for revolution due to government cover-ups are intended results of a counterintelligence reverse tactic not in best interest of the public.

The recent operation on Somali and Nicaraguan youths that psychologically herded them into acts of terrorism need be a warning to Americans about PSYOPS master-minded so that innocent people are roped into actions against their best interest according to Levin.  “I’ve trained agents to do this against criminal targets, but as we know, these agencies have increasingly been politicized like the Gestapo,” he stated.

Bob Levin, FBI targeted whistleblower since 2000, knows sophisticated counterintelligence tactics designed to manipulate the unwitting.  Levin has lectured Special Agents in Training at the FBI Academy in Quantico, Virginia. He has been requested to brief Counterterrorism Taskforce Agents relating to his skill sets and investigative techniques.  ‘My background was in codes and local, specialized state and federal law enforcement that ended in the FBI,’ Levin wrote to this writer in an email.

On December 8, Levin distributed an emailed alert using the following example posted by a WikiLeaks supporter:

‘People NEED to be supporting Julian Assange through this ridiculous time….Levin’s email warned about “FBI, CIA and NSA counterintelligence reverse tactics used to bait passionate persons into an actionable trap.'”

One can only praise Larry Elder.  Who could have discredited Wikileaks as thoroughly?  How many forgot the sins of earlier Wikileaks?  Dr. Sabrosky gets it right when he says that Wikileaks look like they “could have been designed and drafted by Avigdor Lieberman, and…may have been…”



Lila Rajiva on Wikileaks:

August 2, 2010: “Google Wikileaks and count the number of responses you get that you can fit into the right-left binary…… Am I mistaken? In those first 20 pages [of a google search] I saw little or no substantial criticism of Wikileaks (anything beyond the left-right polarity I mentioned earlier).

Inflaming either of those poles could, I suspect, fuel the expansion of the war. I did see Chris Floyd’s piece way back, buried in the middle somewhere. I also saw a well-written Wired piece or two. Everywhere else, it was denunciations or defense from the mainstream media…. or uncritical acceptance from the alternative press. And I’m supposed to believe this huge buzz burying any kind of independent critical voice, largely emanating from the main outlets of financial aggrandisement and war-without-end…..or from foundation “activists”…… is, what, a victory for “the people”?”

June 27, 2010: “Assange objects to privacy. Wikileaks violates privacy. Kind of like Google, notice? Google thinks it’s heroic too and Google has its China-connection too.

Wikileaks makes anonymous sources, hacking, leaking, and ratting out your associates cool. It makes snitches heroes. Cui bono? Need I ask?

Corporate rivals, speculators and short-sellers, blackmailers, rival governments, spy agencies. Does that sound like the company the power-elites keep? So even if Wikileaks were not a disinformation agent, whose agenda would its work finally help?

A totalitarian outfit’s.

It certainly doesn’t help individualism. Ergo, whether Assange himself is a truth-teller, intel operative, visionary, grandstander, paranoid kook, hero, naif, villain, or anything else is beside the point. I can avoid wondering about his stuff with a clear conscience and can spend my energy putting posting material from the countless other reporters, bloggers, volunteers, activists, whistle-blowers and thinkers out there.

If he’s a decoy, I’ve saved myself a lot of trouble. And if he’s a hero, I would still have spent my time usefully. So no harm done. And ‘no harm done’ after all is the first thing we should care about even before we try to figure if blogging can do some good…”

The views expressed herein are the views of the author exclusively and not necessarily the views of VT, VT authors, affiliates, advertisers, sponsors, partners, technicians, or the Veterans Today Network and its assigns. LEGAL NOTICE - COMMENT POLICY

Posted by on December 10, 2010, With Reads Filed under Veterans. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.


  1. petra finch  December 21, 2010 at 11:09 pm

    I also believe wikileaks is a set up for the establishment to justify all the wrong doings done by the elite. I am only a Thai girl in Thailand, but am not alone in my assumptions.

    Unfortunately we who know the truth are only individuals and do not have a common mouthpiece else then we would be strong as a mouthpiece and be able to to do something against the propaganda, that seems to endlessly spurt from these institutions that want to and do make the rules with which we have to adhere.

    Unfortunately if we do not obey these rules we are labelled criminals when in fact the criminals are the people in power

  2. Gordon Duff  December 17, 2010 at 7:07 am

    You logic is substantively flawed. Your rhetoric is dishonest.

  3. Gordon Tryon  December 17, 2010 at 12:57 am

    What is about Wikileaks that really pushes the conspiracy nuts over the edge? Is it because it actually reveals a behind-the-scenes reality that doesn’t gibe with their crackpot imaginings? Or is it simply that ANY factual exposure of governmental practice undermines their comic book world of nebulous and nefarious hidden hands everywhere? Conspiracy AND conspiracy theorists both thrive best in secrecy. Wikileaks is about openness. Duff writes (above in comments): “The debate, among the informed, is over…” But among the informed, i.e., those who have some basic criterion in place to distinguish reality from fantasy, there never was a debate. For instance: Why would the Israelis “set up” Hillary Clinton through the leaked cables, exposing her as someone spying on and undermining the UN, and thus damaging her credibility and image? Clinton has always been one of the biggest shills for Jewish interests in Washington: she still deceitfully claims that Russia, not the Georgians and IDF, started the 08 conflict in South Ossetia, for example. And her support for any Palestinian dialogue is patently bogus. In short, she’s an AIPAC pin-up girl. Senseless to expose her then, no? But who cares about sense when those unfathomable forces of conspiracy beckon!

  4. Jeff  December 14, 2010 at 1:26 am

    Gordon –

    I have written to Gordon before / all I can say is – if this wiki assange is part of the zionist plan – it is almost “game-over” for us.

    This is really even worse than 9-11 in many ways. We have been killed, now comes the slaughter. Very very few people care, really. This too is horrible. All you can do is fight for your own family because the nation really came apart a long time ago. I am not prepared to die, so the best we can do with this info is play the markets using it. That is all we have. Make money because that is your only ticket out. As I said – game over.


  5. Gordon Duff  December 13, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    This is the same Assange, who for years has disparaged the 9/11 Truth movement, the same assange joined at the hip with the neocons, Bush and Israel…always has been. Your response is non-linear. You are defending a petty shill, long exposed, who beats the drum for the powerful and evil. Assange had long ago shed his sheeps clothing. You stand with the neocon supporters in the press…and the weak kneed fruitcakes of the fringe media against…those with a track record for being right. Bad decision making. Your ideas are not based in fact. You bought in on the lying media or your reasons are otherwise. You have yet to make a statement of substance.
    No exucse.

  6. Rubiconski  December 13, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Mr. Duff

    Unfortunately Mr. Assange is not available to answer his attackers.

    It is too bad that as VT is gaining legitimacy you’ve chosen the path of a knee jerk reactionary unwilling to hear any viewpoints other than your own.

    I have questions regarding the cable dump as much as anyone, but I am careful to launch any attacks in the most effective direction.

    I eagerly await your ideas on how to get the real truth on the workings of this malignant hijacked government that holds us all hostage.

  7. Travis Baskerfield  December 13, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    Apologies for the typos.

  8. Gordon Duff  December 13, 2010 at 11:47 am

    It is no longer excusable for a reasonable person who is well informed to have your views. The debate, among the informed, is over…but only by a few days for some. Please catch up.

  9. Rubiconski  December 13, 2010 at 11:19 am

    Mr. Duff

    The vigorousness of your war on WikiLeaks leaves me wondering what is YOUR agenda? The released cables are from US State Department employees to and from various puppet governments. Of course there’s little mention of Israel or the US. CONSIDER THE SOURCE. The cables plainly show the US involvement in fabrication and false flagging information to continue the “war on terror”.

    This campaign of yours to kill the messenger is disturbing to say the least. Maybe it’s a veterans thing, the need to create enemies and kill things. But it gives merit to and thoroughly supports the MSM’s disinformation through the dissection of content and furthering the agenda of the decepticons. You have the same goals it seems. You’re just wearing different uniforms.

    I’ve enjoyed your opinions in the past and the many contributors to VT. On this subject though, we part ways.

  10. Zitawi  December 13, 2010 at 3:51 am

    Interesting. What was the name of the book by any chance? and Panoptimist why you got to be so mean? Oddly enough its somewhat important for these colluders to let the cat out of the bag once in awhile.

  11. OS  December 13, 2010 at 3:24 am

    Your right, need to focus.

  12. OS  December 13, 2010 at 3:19 am

    Craig’s still busy,

    Cutting and pasting specific comments people write on this website onto his web-page at the bottom. So later others can collect this information, that’s is specific.

    Not many would go to this web-page except others collecting information.

  13. S/OS  December 13, 2010 at 2:27 am

    Hi johng,

    Are you a veteran, unit, service?

  14. OS  December 13, 2010 at 2:12 am

    OS is fishing – S/, S/OS

  15. S/OS  December 13, 2010 at 2:00 am

    Hi Larry,

    Craig was sniffed out, and this was for his benefit because he’s in the wrong business. Have observed real threats all across the globe, easy picking, fairly simple.

    In the US, the game is played, however in other countries this can result in serious consequences.

    Must be approaching the bottom of barrel, Yes?

  16. johng  December 12, 2010 at 10:36 pm

    TJ Bronco, you truly have succeded in draging the VT website to a new “debased” level with your perverted juvenile comments.

  17. fixtheticket  December 12, 2010 at 6:20 pm

    the cafeteria food at MONSANTO (for employees) is all non- G.M.O.

  18. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    The real problem is not wikileaks but the fact that creeps like Lieberman control the entire USA , including congress and can pass any law they like and they control mass media as their house propaganda organ


  19. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 5:48 pm



  20. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    No, just reminding others who is is. An insulting SOB, at worst. The long time readers know.

  21. Kay Bee  December 12, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    Unfortunately Galloway also doesn’t believe the 9/11 “conspiracy” theorists arguments. Which make one really wonder if he’s simply blind or just which side of history he’ll be remembered as truly supporting.

  22. johng  December 12, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    Volz, I really don’t know who this Larry Dickerson was or is. He very obviously did a real “demo-job” on you that you can’t seem to get over. You imagination is “retarding” sound debate here.

  23. Brian  December 12, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    Well I hope things get better so you don’t have to kill the comment section. Obviously your articles stand by themselves and the comments are not necessary but for the months I have been reading your articles I have noticed some good information and ideas in the comment sections and some good links. Perhaps you agree. One of the things I’ve noticed is a few people treat the comment section as a chat room and it takes away from the integrity of the comment section.

  24. wolf  December 12, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    “Cass Sunstein also wrote about Wikileaks in Feb of 2007 prior to their release of the first set of Chinese “leaks”. But Sunstein also wrote about infiltrating dissident groups later in 2008. Sunstein currently heads the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs for Barack Obama.

    “Sunstein co-authored a 2008 paper with Adrian Vermeule, titled “Conspiracy Theories,” in which they wrote, “The existence of both domestic and foreign conspiracy theories, we suggest, is no trivial matter, posing real risks to the government’s antiterrorism policies, whatever the latter may be.” They go on to propose that, “the best response consists in cognitive infiltration of extremist groups“, where they suggest, among other tactics, “Government agents (and their allies) might enter chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups and attempt to undermine percolating conspiracy theories by raising doubts about their factual premises, causal logic or implications for political action.”

    Sunstein and Vermeule also analyze the practice of secret government payments to outside commentators, who are then held out as independent experts; they suggest that “government can supply these independent experts with information and perhaps prod them into action from behind the scenes,” further warning that “too close a connection will be self-defeating if it is exposed.”

    This internal discourse on the purpose and the practice of infiltrating dissident groups in order to undermine existing “conspiracy theories” was written in 2008, but don’t suppose that it hadn’t been done before. Just look up the Black Panthers. Take a look at the line “government can supply these independent experts with information” and you start to get the idea behind Wikileaks. Again, consider the type of “leaks” that have been coming out about Iran and North Korea and you get the picture.

    “But the track record of the new collaborations suggests that they have immense potential. In just a few years, Wikipedia has become the most influential encyclopedia in the world, consulted by judges as well as those who cannot afford to buy books. If the past is prologue, we’re seeing the tip of a very large iceberg.” Washington Post

    Far from being a ringing endorsement of Wikileaks, Sunstein’s article seems to express what we can probably assume was the motivating factor behind the creation of such a program, and that is that they knew it had “immense potential”.

    It’s unfortunate what is going to happen. We all know it. We all see it. At some point that 256 character encryption code is going to be released and all of those wanna-be hackers will busily work to decode the 1.6 gig file they downloaded from all those bit torrent sites. Of course the files are unredacted, as has already been made clear by Mr. assange himself, and the end result will obviously be that some U.S. agent in Pakistan or Somalia or even Yemen will be disclosed and killed.

    At that point, the Obama administration will have no choice but to shut down thousands of websites (they just ran a BETA test for that last month shutting down 70 all at once) for “national security” reasons. Once that happens, they will of course have to pass a net neutrality bill that allows for licensing requirements for hosting websites which will mean only government approved sites will be allowed and they will be constantly monitored, for the public good of course. And thus, all those troubling “conspiracy theory” sites will be gone and Cass Sunstein can sleep better at night.”

    From: “If We Lose our Internet Freedoms Because of Wikileaks, You Should At Least Know Why”
    by Scott Creighton

  25. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    So we agree again John? I thought you might be Larry since you are both anonymous.


  26. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Detlef, We feel your pain. How well we know!


  27. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    Do you think he can figure out how to not do that? Gordon? Did he have a lifetime plntinum subscription? Do they cost less than a million?


  28. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    smell a rat? LOL

  29. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    I too am sick of the wiki-sh_t! Every time I hear wiki-anything I think JEW. Is wiki a yiddish or hebrew word for “fool” possibly?


  30. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Excellent and insightful comment Erica! You say “Netanyahu is the most devious person I have studied. He considered his Machiavelli ability a Jewish racial gift..”

    I previously mentioned the jewish penchant for joking about their own tendency for duplicity on VT and I was either attacked or ignored. Larry Dickerstine and apparently JohnG, just put down another mark in their count of so-called antisemitic remarks by me.

    I’m glad you haven’t forgotten the Lewinsky sexpionage episode which most American sheeple still do not understand. (due to lack of jewish mass media coverage——-that would have made the best Sixty Minutes (of BS) episode).

    I assume you are fully familiar with the Gay, NJ Governor Mcgreevy/Mossad Raven love story too, no doubt. True love, Mcgreevy falls in love with raven-mossad spy on trip to the un-holy land, israel! Then appoints the jewish spy as New Jersey’s Homeland Security Director!!!!!!!!!!! Sixty Minutes (of BS) missed that blockbuster spy story too, of course!!! Foolywood ever saw such a bizarre though non-fiction script!!!!!—— even from their most nonsensical and perverted writers!!!!!!!!!!

    Gratifying to meet more and more Americans who know the score here at VT! Where have you been? I’m looking forward to more real Americans coming out of the closet on this issue. Thanks Gordon for this forum!



    I would like to hear your true story about how you got over your fear of the antisemitism charge!!


  31. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    Maybe this eventually result in a fake execution of AsStrange, for spying on the USA, like Timothy McVeigh? That would be a chiller! Meanwhile treason at AIPAC will continue full throttle!


  32. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    JohnG, you said Henry Ford was “motivated by greed and lust for power (money?)”, but never could back it up with references. Was that statement a “legend in your own mind”? Seems like you are fast a loose with your facts or is it defamation?


  33. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 12:48 pm


    Most of Larry’s “friends” seem to be in far off places like South Africa. and need I say it? Israel? IS LARRY AN INTERNATIONAL J_W? Or does he just work for them? Another Dickerson came up in the Sibel Edmonds discussion as a State Department employee who was actually working for Israel. Is that Dickerson our Larry? Or, one of Larry’s relatives? When I questioned him on it, he was silent.

    BTW, Larry & JohnG read everything I write. They are even counting every time I make a so-called “antisemitic” remark. JohnG said the count was over a thousand. He must of been counting for five months before he made his first comment on VT as JohnG. Did he take Larry’s word for it? Or is Johng actually Larry? JohnG was getting started here while Larry was silent.
    (by way of deception, do war).

    Of course Larry, never mentions his American friends at AIPAC, THE DEFAMATION LEAGUE ETC. TOO CLOSE TO HOME!


  34. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Larry always threatens that he and all the other shills are going to leave VT and it will die off! But he always returns! He is the real pesky horse fly here!


  35. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    Larry, merely wants a signed, notarized confession from Ariel Sharon, BiBi NuttyYuHu, Larry A Silverstein and the rest. Even then, he would question whether they were under duress when they signed. Is Larry actually Alan Dershowitz???


  36. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    LOL, MIKE Larry is oh so “smart”.

  37. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Craig was at least correct on the Volz/johnG Henry Ford debate score.


  38. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 11:53 am

    TJ, Honestly, I can’t completely dismiss Craig . He is only 35(?) years
    old. I know, unfortunately, countless American men his age who spend all their time watching useless sports, foolywood movies, smoking weed (and crack), “fathering” children they never take care of and drinking themselves to death, so at least Craig is serious about something.

    If Craig is truly a shill or the enemy, he at least offers some comic relief here from VERY SERIOUS and DEADLY topics. Maybe we can “TURN” him?


  39. fixtheticket  December 12, 2010 at 11:52 am

    be on the lookout for a “new” “third” party that will include an Israeli centered Foreign policy

  40. fixtheticket  December 12, 2010 at 11:49 am

    I felt embarrassed for simply assuming he was just dense

  41. fixtheticket  December 12, 2010 at 11:47 am

    Lawrence A Dickerson,
    so how are things over at Talmud Headquarters (ADL) ??

  42. fixtheticket  December 12, 2010 at 11:44 am

    I don’t think Wikileaks has been that damaging, the clean pass given Israel definitely sticks out, In fact for a lot of T.V. heads this may have stirred a few neurons and for many perhaps even a final,much belated realization that the Newz Networks are Soap Operas as often as anything else.

  43. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 11:41 am



  44. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Another common shill ploy: “you seem to have a FIXATION on the jews or Henry Ford , or anything else the jews want to keep hidden. This shill ploy was brought to you by the person who developed the following shill ploy: “antisemitism is a metal illenes” (anyone who criticizes anything jewish is metally ill).

    I think that last shill ploy was developed by the same person who coached “Michael (the devil) Chertoff” to introduce a new innovative shill ploy on C-SpanTheTruth, first used when Chertoff said: “Questioning 911 is equivalent to holocaust denial”.

    Maybe that was a Chertoff original, I don’t know—-the Chertoff family has been at it a long time since his mother was mossad. If you ever fly El Al, be careful what you eat if their flight attendant gives it to you—-it might be poison as they have just developed a “mind reading machine” (to identify antisemites? or to identify sociopaths to work for them?)


  45. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 11:20 am

    Ron Paul, the wikileaks farce is hardly clever! It actually reflects the lower quality of personnel being hired at CIA since the mossad takeover—–they actually want and need incompetent yes men there since it is no longer an “intelligence” agency but rather a circus.


  46. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 11:09 am

    There you go again Larry A Dickerstine, scolding the other VT readers, just before you drop your own load of nastiness and defamation. It’s a familiar shill ploy to me, since I know quite a number of paid and unpaid shills personally. Furthermore I have been watching shills defame decent people on the jewish controlled mass media for over forty years.

    Does your South African buddy still say I’m “pure malice and a brown shirt (nazi) –all based on nothing)”? My ugliness is even known all the way down in South Africa? (another shill ploy: “everyone knows”—“i have world wide contacts and everyone in the world agrees with me”, shill ploy number 1&2, form LAD.


  47. Gordon Duff  December 12, 2010 at 10:45 am

    The damage wikileaks has done…to our perceptions is far wars than 9/11.
    wikileaks has, nearly singlehandedly, killed any hope of getting the truth to the people
    unless we can stop it

  48. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 10:43 am

    Well Gordon, I hope it doesn’t come to that because of the numbers you mention, you are obviously spreading the word like wild fire, which is very heartening.

    It is amazing how few readers comment but most are reading because of the shock value, most I have little doubt fear to mention the fact that they are reading here to their family, friends and neighbors——at least at first!

    You are in a unique position to identify shills who might resist detection by others, which is good. Despite all the chaos in the comments section, I believe, because you have allowed most to have their say that may be the key to increasing readership, in addition to the content which is revolutionary. (in times of universal deceit, speaking the truth is (truly) a revolutionary act, Eric Blair/Orwell).

    Thanks for your patriotic service, I wish I was in a position to help financially at this time.

    I believe free speech to the greatest extent possible is the best policy. The shills eventually run out of tactics and their arguments and tact can be identified more quickly as they repeatedly do and say the same thing.

    It is important for new readers to observe this activity because that is new to most sheeple. Becoming familiar with shill ploys is important for awakening sheeple. Understanding their tactics can help the sheeple on the public square and in town hall meetings. That too is part ofthe educational process you are effecting here.


  49. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 10:20 am

    Well said, Penumbra. This is mass insanity which could not be effected without control of the mass media.


  50. Gordon Duff  December 12, 2010 at 10:17 am

    There really are shills here though I am not sure my “regulars” recognize them. We pay to host this place and I simply cut them off. there isn’t much that can be said by many about articles…as most here know we are plowing the same field over and over…
    the only other reason should be to develop information..bring in new people…and we do that…or make friends
    instead….it is turning into a sewer
    If this keeps up, I will simply kill the comment section on my stuff.
    as of yesterday, i had 14 million hits on yahoo…britney spears had 56 million
    when you are talking “tin foil hat”…think of those who believe wikileaks
    what a pack of dumb shits.

  51. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 10:09 am

    I believe Raimondo is a professional dis-informationist from the beginning—–others have said so.


  52. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 10:05 am

    They can also ignore Larry Dickerstine as well and the people who followed his comments did exactly that. When he saw he was spinning his wheels and being ignored , he quit commenting for the most part.


  53. Michael J Volz  December 12, 2010 at 10:01 am

    New readers are not familiar with your history Larry. You were god to let the LAD moniker cool off, so now you return with your polished, considered,”civil”, original persona. What have you been doing all this time? Have you been working the JohnG puppet?

    Gordon, the things you have said already made your site radioactive as I’m sure most Americans would still believe you are a tin foil hat wearing wingnut. The people who you have exposed are fight to the death agent provocateurs so good luck moderating fairly.

    I’ sure William Kristol of the Weakly Non-Standard would be glad to do your moderation for you for free, if Larry Dickerstine doesn’t get the job.

    I think your first inclination, to allow free speech was the best route. While you never intended making this a “chat room” as you said, I believe the participants need some banter to expose the folks who seem to be here to disrupt. The NY Times model for moderation will be sure to neutralize your site in the long run. That is why their readership is declining and yours is increasing. Everything is zio sanitized at the NY Times.

    Anyone who wants to ignore Craig or me for that matter can and many have done just that.



  54. kate  December 12, 2010 at 9:09 am

    This goes with that.—Ive-seen-proof-says-Assange-lawyer.html

    Ooh look, more weasel-words.

    “You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple: to force the public to turn to the state to ask for greater security.” Vincenzo Vinciguerra

  55. kate  December 12, 2010 at 8:44 am

    It’s very much like the AGW debacle. They’re rapid religionists who’ve attached their star to the ‘St.Julian’ bandwagon. Detaching, separating out ‘Cry Freedom’ from the totally duped lemming can be a hard and painful exercise. Give ’em time. Altho’ I really don’t think we have much of that either. If you’ll pardon my mixed metaphors – the horse has bolted and you gotta ride that pony.

  56. johng  December 12, 2010 at 7:07 am

    TJ Bronco, Larry Dickerson is not going to step in the sewer to debate a “low life ” like you.

  57. Frank  December 12, 2010 at 4:02 am

    Clean up this commentpage PLZ its leading to nothing.

  58. Ron Paul 2012  December 12, 2010 at 2:40 am

    Thanks buddy.
    You’re the man.
    Pepe was targeting you for a reason.

  59. Ron Paul 2012  December 12, 2010 at 12:46 am

    Infants need diapers for a reason…

  60. Budreaux  December 11, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    I agree

  61. kate  December 11, 2010 at 11:09 pm

    ‘Journalism is “puff”’ Yes.
    ‘I can write other than puff.’ Yes.
    ‘Do you have a background for it?’ Huh? No? Just ‘inquiring minds want to know’. Cut through the puff.

    Latest –

  62. fixtheticket  December 11, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    Craig Pepe is littering

  63. wolf  December 11, 2010 at 11:01 pm

    well said mike

  64. Ron Paul 2012  December 11, 2010 at 10:06 pm

    I’m sure taking away your allowance makes you hold your breathe until your face turns blue. Am I right?


  65. Lawrence A Dickerson  December 11, 2010 at 9:59 pm

    You hit the nail directly on the head.My friends and I read today not for the articles but for Pepe playing poker with the peanut gallery.I referenced his actions in my first comment concerning how the topics get railroaded.

  66. Ron Paul 2012  December 11, 2010 at 9:45 pm

    Only a “village idiot” wouldn’t recognize the accuracy of his title.
    By the way Pepe, do you really think your little psy-op accomplished anything here?
    Looks to me like it was a train wreck…

  67. Lawrence A Dickerson  December 11, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    VTNC.You are probably already aware of this but any person who dares to disagree with the other kids in the sand box gets called an Israeli shill,etc.That grown men choose to act like this is only because of the tone of the rhetoric being spewed.It is a fascinating study of human behavior to say the least.

    I noticed that the subject of this editorial was railroaded 1/3rd of the way through the comments and never really brought back to the subject on hand.

  68. Ron Paul 2012  December 11, 2010 at 9:29 pm


    You’re right about that.
    For the record, I don’t know enough about this guy to support nor refute him.
    Just throwing it out there for consumption.

  69. Ron Paul 2012  December 11, 2010 at 9:16 pm

    Does “village idiot” make you feel more comfortable, Pepe?

  70. Ron Paul 2012  December 11, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    Hopefully it will give you stroke.

  71. Ron Paul 2012  December 11, 2010 at 8:53 pm


    You want to turn the comment section into a place where people are exchanging information ( and of course informative commentary ). That will happen on it’s own as long as you don’t have blantant shills sabotaging the process. It complements the articles and accelerates the learning process. The shills HATE it, trust me.

    I’m surprised you’re putting up with these guys when their intent is so obvious.

  72. Ron Paul 2012  December 11, 2010 at 8:49 pm

    Could your shilling and lame data-mining operation be anymore obvious?
    Wow your bad at this, apparently the Zionists are outsourcing to India now.

  73. johng  December 11, 2010 at 8:33 pm

    Craig, your alcohol, pills, and welfare check, is really not doing you a whole lot of good.

  74. Ron Paul 2012  December 11, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    Really Gordon, enough of Pepe already.
    You’ve probably been doing this longer than me, why give this idiot/shill airtime?

  75. Ron Paul 2012  December 11, 2010 at 8:26 pm

    He’s a not so clever troll/shill designed to irritate people and take up as much space as possible. ( notice all the double spacing )
    I just assume V.T. is showing patience or just observing him before they ban him. He really is wrecking the otherwise informative comment section, but of course that is his job…

  76. Ken Rechtstein  December 11, 2010 at 8:21 pm

    Gordon, thanks for another great analysis exposing the inconsistencies of the Wikileaks rationale and motivations.

    It seems to me that one of the objectives, nobody focuses on, of this new Zio-psy-ops is to OVERSHADOW and push back stage the 9/11 truth movement, just at the moment when it was gaining momentum…

    The only way to nail the Bush-Cheney-GB-IL gang goes through evidence gathering against them for the 9/11 tragedy and subsequent financial fraud, involving the FED and Wall Street Banksters tied to the Zion Talmudic Mafia that hijacked America and EU. Everything that followed is a derived from there… The smart move with Wikileaks has been to give the populace a new batch of chickenfeed, to make it forget about the task at hand, which is The USE of the evidence for fool play related with 9/11 to indict the criminal gang.

  77. SAS  December 11, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    Hi Craig,

    Some of the things I have seen you post here are not very Christian, but we all screw up. These comments should have substance and not random banter or chatter; neither should they contain questions that are somewhat obvious or even ridiculous.

    You can leave a comment or two that is not educational or irrelevant from time to time, but we should not leave these comments all the time so that we do not end up spamming the comments section and annoying people.

  78. Ken Rechtstein  December 11, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    Detlef, keep up the good work. I know too well how the German educational system is under constant watch from the Zion Talmudic Mafia that prevent free thinking in the country and keep its citizens tied to a guilt feeling and subordinated to the whims of the Dons ruling the Rogue State of Israel.

    Many German friends dare not even brush in private such topics as the ones you here do. They fear that it can be anytime unrighteously used against them by those who want to keep a lid on the truth and prevent free speech.

    You are absolutely right Wikileak is a scam, a psy-ops with multi-purpose objectives.

    All the best.

  79. Michael J Volz  December 11, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    Budreaux, The fact of the matter, as far as I’m concerned the fact is that most Americans will never have the balls to comment here because though they may be apathetic sheeple they are smart enough to know their identities are easily traceable. When it comes to the bill of rights the government is off the hook and chain. Even the sheeple know that! Worse than that, entities such as the DEFAMATION LEAGUE, SPLC, AND AIPAC are off the hook and chain too and are effectively in control of government agencies, not to mention the USA military and intelligence agencies.

    What kind of idiot or fool does anyone expect are going to comment here sincerely, knowledgeably and intelligently? You have to be crazy! I do wonder if I need my head examined for leaving one comment. The American sheeple may be way smarter than me though I criticize them. Unfortunately, I believe it is my duty on the outside chance that open discussion can do some good in the long run.

    And of the seemingly intelligent commentators, how many are anonymous and are plying a hidden agenda?

    Larry Dickerstine who called Gordon an antisemite in an offline conversation, threatened that decent folks (like him) would never participate with all the obvious “jew haters”, KKK, wingnuts, and nutjobs commenting. Larry went on calling everbody names after chiding everyone else for uncivil behavior.

    I suspect that we shouldn’t hold our breath for any US Senators or Federal judges to show up regardless of who is or who isn’t participating. There has been virtually no one who acknowledges being jewish commenting. Why not? Not because the antisemites and KKK, but like most apathetic sheeple they won’t take the slightest chance saying what they really think on a public forum, which does not guarantee anonymity regardless of appearances.

    I think Gordon’s figures confirm my theory that an ever increasing number of people find the conversations and postings very interesting because such free speech in a public forum in America does not exist, and is an extreme curiosity.

    In a true free speech setting, idiots are allowed to talk just as they are allowed to vote. Most comment forums anywhere strictly delete any material critical of jews or israel (who are not disinterested, irrelevant parties in all these matters).


  80. Michael J Volz  December 11, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    JohnG, you’re just mad because Craig said:

    Volz 77
    Johng 3

    On the Henry Ford debate.


  81. Budreaux  December 11, 2010 at 6:21 pm

    I couldn’t agree more. I love your work and I come here learn. It’s exciting to read one of your articles and then come back later to see over a hundred responses, but it’s a big let down to disvover that nearly half of them are from one person who never brings anything of value to the conversation at best, and usually hijacks the thread. I simply asked about the ignnore button in response to his latest little outburst.

  82. Gordon Duff  December 11, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    Ray is an excellent writer and contibutes valuable insights. Not everyone can meet everyone elses litmus.

  83. Gordon Duff  December 11, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    seems to understand the games

  84. Gordon Duff  December 11, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    Journalism is “puff”
    I can write other than puff.
    Do you have a background for it?

  85. Gordon Duff  December 11, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    I had really not intended for this to become a chatroom. Every time Craig writes something down, General Hamid Gul gets an email announcement. This is how our editor funciton works. We already have Zionist sillies….
    Time for some others to work to focus on substance. I write so people have something to read and think about. I ended up reaching, last month, over 6 million people…
    Some of what is written here defines how discussions across the world go. When things on the comment boards at VT are juvenile….it kicks America in the ass.

  86. johng  December 11, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    Craig, how do you bring out the worst in people?

  87. Budreaux  December 11, 2010 at 6:01 pm

    Is there, by any chance, an “ignore” button on the server?

  88. Frank  December 11, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    sorry i am drunk.

  89. johng  December 11, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    Craig, are you a veteran?

  90. johng  December 11, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    Congradulations Craig for destroying another one of Gordon’s threads. Over 50 comments were posted by you on this thread and none of them had anything to do with Gordon’s article or the subject here. You obviously don’t have a job, friends, or much of a life. Waste time on your own and don’t interfere with the people here who have something to offer.

  91. OS  December 11, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    I believe Craig’s job is to target veterans websites, and harass veterans. Right Craig? It looks that way….maybe you should paste this link?

  92. OS  December 11, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    Also a person of faith, who uses every four letter word he can imagine.

  93. OS  December 11, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Excuse me, I forgot to include a typo.

    Univresity of Penn.

  94. kate  December 11, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    Can’t sleep ‘cos I’m having a little trouble with the Wiki-Maths. Actually I’m not even sure if it’s algebra or accounting, let alone the ‘purity of French mathematicians’.

    The first part of the equation seems to be this little puff-piece, let’s call it X (as in ‘marks the spot’ and it’s been a traditional favourite with pirates too) about ’emails, clandestine meetings and confidential exchanges’, a plane trip, public phone box, a ticket, train trip… then ‘a long drive through the countryside to WikiLeaks’s temporary headquarters, made available by a benefactor…The setting was utterly incongruous. The home was a marvellous example of Georgian elegance, a relic of the pre-industrial age carefully preserved but demonstrating the challenges of maintaining buildings that are close to 300 years old.
    On the walls of the drawing room, in effect WikiLeaks operations room, paintings of long-dead defenders of the empire, most in the scarlet uniforms, looked down on a tangle of laptops, printers, wires and power cables and other equipment…In the morning the countryside reverberated to the sounds of gunfire as the English upper class indulged its passion for bird shooting. Occasionally low-flying air force jets would rattle the windows, prompting jokes about a possible air strike.’
    The next element, Y, (well just because, Y)
    ‘The group of hackers, called Anonymous, said it would target British government websites if Mr Assange was extradited to Sweden, where he is wanted over allegations of sexual assault. Gregg Housh, an American internet activist who previously worked with the hackers, said: “They will go after the weakest links, because they want to see results. They will probably test a few sites and then decide.”’
    And then, (N) (- you’ll catch on) is’3 million phones without service’ even in the equation?
    So is it X – Y (N) = E ?

  95. OS  December 11, 2010 at 2:34 pm


    Bright enough to have BA from University of Penn. What’s wrong with that picture?

  96. Cloak and Dagger  December 11, 2010 at 11:53 am

    Is this comment section meant for anything useful or just a never-ending series of inane posts by someone called Craig Pepe and some cohorts?

    Its a major turn off.

  97. kate  December 11, 2010 at 10:44 am

    Nicely said, TJ.

  98. kate  December 11, 2010 at 10:15 am

    Not quite. JY was in it long before Wikileaks got up. He was invited by Julian to be involved, which he did, for a while, and then he split. You can read the published emails relating to this at

    But yes, I agree it’s quite an ‘insightful’ interview!

    Some of you guys might want to take a big, deep breath ‘cos according to JY they’re gonna keep rolling out the ‘cyber-shockwaves’

  99. rash  December 11, 2010 at 9:32 am

    Detlef, you had the balls to resign.Think how many millions of teachers are not even thinking or just keep on carrying on with their job even though a lot of them know that the education system is to keep the poor, poor in truth. Like it’s cousins the medical profession and the justice systems. All there to ensure the systems stay and blame it on you.

  100. Head Con  December 11, 2010 at 9:26 am

    I knew it all along Dick Cheney is a hacktivist! LMAO

  101. rash  December 11, 2010 at 9:10 am

    Erica, you have done your homework. Great analysis.

  102. johng  December 11, 2010 at 7:13 am

    One more thing, you guys think you’re gonna solve 911 when you can’t even control the “joker” in the deck of the V.T. house of cards. I’m just watching you all bowing and scrapimg to “pappino”, he’s playing you all like a cheap fiddle.

  103. Genie  December 11, 2010 at 4:34 am

    I was reading some wikileak garbage that has some Mossad agent discussing the issue of the Israel/Palestine peace negotiation as if it were some real legitimate thing happening and blaming the Palestinian side for this or that and holding the process up. Lol, like hell. The whole conversation was BS because I have been following this stuff for 30 years and there is no such thing as Israel trying to negotiate for a 2 state or anything else. The Israel game has always been “how to bullshit for more time to grab more of Palestine before the rest of the world catches on to us.” And there was also stuff about Arab leaders being fearful of the “threat” of Iran’s nukes and wanting the US to deal with it. Ha! As if. The Arab leaders are a part of the game, they are only fearful of US losing power because then they will lose their thrones. Wikileaks is bullshit.

  104. Ron Paul 2012  December 11, 2010 at 3:53 am

    No, what I mean is he is not tackling the main issue like V.T. is that wikileaks is a fraud.

    It’s like combat sports, as soon as you play into your opponents game you’ve already lost.

  105. Syed Zaidi  December 11, 2010 at 3:48 am

    The Wikipedia article on Ray McGovern says “McGovern is one of 100 signatories to a petition ‘which calls for immediate public attention to unanswered questions that suggest that people within the current administration may indeed have deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen, perhaps as a pretext for war.'[7] However, his own view is not that the administration allowed or knew about 9/11, but that the exploitation of it is an impeachable offense.[8]” They say he is ex-CIA, but since 9/11 is the litmus test, I wouldn’t be too sure.

  106. Ron Paul 2012  December 11, 2010 at 3:35 am

    John Young of the the original members of Wikileaks interviewed on Alex Jones.
    ( it is long so here is part:2 of the interview )

    Gordon should contact this guy.

  107. Ron Paul 2012  December 11, 2010 at 3:32 am


    Russia Today has reported both sides of this story.
    They have had Wayne Madsen and Webster Tarpley on, both of whom don’t trust wikileaks.

    And now they just had on John Young, one of the founders of wikileaks, and he didn’t have kind words to say about it…

    “Governments using Wikileaks to spread disinformation ?”

    Nice try though.

  108. Ingrid B  December 11, 2010 at 3:22 am

    @Detlef Reimers:Bravo.. Germans have been held hostage to the Zionist “myths” ever since WW2.. Time to set people free from feelings of guilt.. I have known of Germans here in Norway who are, to this day, made to feel guilty about a war which was fought before they were born..

  109. Frank  December 11, 2010 at 3:05 am

    Hey Craig Pepe I know just like a lot of us that Wikileak isn’t what they are writting and they are only shake trees so we get enemy’s.
    War is MONEY.

  110. Ingrid B  December 11, 2010 at 2:37 am

    Watched Galloway`s “comment” on Press TV yesterday and even he was selling Assange as a hero.. Galloway, the champion of Palestine and friend of Islam is misinformed..

  111. Frank  December 11, 2010 at 2:37 am

    Give evil a face and you have an enemy.

  112. Erica  December 11, 2010 at 2:30 am

    Unless the recent letter on the Internet written by Assange himself is a fake, the content tell is all about Assange. He claims to be a long time great admirer of Murdock strategies. Strategies he imitated.
    As for Lieberman my assessment of him is that he is an “in your face” type. But the deliberately convoluted sequence of event had Netanyahu and gang written all over. Netanyahu is the most devious person I have studied. He considered his Machiavelli ability a Jewish racial gift.. This made sense to me after researching Soros as part of a project and reading his letter and book. After being the first to devastate the British Pound, he appeared on TV several times and often stated Israel method of brute force was wrong that if one has the proper brain and ability one could bring a country to its knee without firing a shot. When he demolished the monetary system of Thailand followed by the Collapse of Asia major economies he stated “it was poor management on the part of Thailand, not my action. if one does not know how to play the game….. ” Now, we all know Jewish people are gifted in the art of money games, in facts Arabs in the Bazaars of Cairo love the game and I was once told if I did not bargain I would ruin his day because he had no victory. They actually love it, equal opportunity no intent to cheat.

    Now, skip to Netanyahu who is very proud of this Jewish ability, as the papers and people of Israel said during the cold shoulder time of Obama “you wait Bibi will bring Obama down to a zero.” He did that to Clinton he is using the same method, how on earth would a young, oversexed Jewish girls end up in the White House to show her undies? Wake America. The aim of the game is t make fools of all of us and it has worked. All is fair in love and war and political or financial games and we are to naive to look under that sleeve for that hidden card. It is a survival game but the kind of survival ending planned is what determines the methods used.
    Obama must learn to play poker or check mate with Netanyahu. Knowing when to end the game is the victory. Now is the time and stop subsidies. End of game. That is not end of Peace effort Obama is involving other nations now, Argentina, Brazil and other have pledged to recognize Palestine on the 67 border. The issue is borders. the Palestinians have stated their official claims, time for Israel to put forth their plan on which to negotiate. That is Poker Mr. President. As for WikiLeak the answer is “go ahead, is time to clean out the barn any way.”

    Gordon this is right up your talent. Lets play their game and win.

  113. Speed of Dark  December 11, 2010 at 1:39 am


    New Game: Spot the Tel Aviv Shill! Weasel words; Nazi, Palestinian. Is it 3,000 imaginary rockets from Gaza per week? or day? North Korea’s Nukes came from where? North Korea didn’t fire that torpedo from a Dolphin class submarine with a foreign crew did they?


  114. Speed of Dark  December 11, 2010 at 1:33 am


    New Game: Spot the Tel Aviv Shill! Weasel words; Nazi, Palestinian. Is it 3,000 imaginary rockets from Gaza per week? or day? North Korea’s Nukes came from where? North Korea didn’t fire that torpedo from a Dolphin class submarine with a foreign crew did they?


  115. vinnie  December 11, 2010 at 1:32 am

    I would compare George Bush the Chimp to HITLER. what more bullshit can WikLeaks come up with?????????????

  116. wolf  December 11, 2010 at 12:45 am

    Duff has dual-citizen status…
    (Ich bin ein Toledoan?)

  117. mystic  December 11, 2010 at 12:38 am

    Intellectual is spelled with 2 Ls after the “e”.

  118. Penumbra  December 11, 2010 at 12:13 am

    You had me wondering at first read, but Ive come to know your style better than that. 😉

  119. Penumbra  December 11, 2010 at 12:11 am

    I thought you lived in Ohio, G?

  120. Penumbra  December 11, 2010 at 12:05 am

    “Well Colin Powell was very very very convincing at the Security Council after 9/11”

    No, actually he wasn’t. What he was was a shill for policies that had already been predetermined prior to 9/11 and which were intended to be rolled out regardless of the “theatrics for the masses” played out in the UN. Powell knew he was betraying every principle of decency he had been touted to possess and he slithered off not long after into a disgraceful retirement, his character in shambles.

  121. kate  December 10, 2010 at 11:03 pm

    Sigh. (just can’t …. oh, what the hell. just sigh. it was bloody obvious what was coming down the pipeline wasn’t it)

    Naomi Wolf. HuffPo.

    Espionage Act: How the Government Can Engage in Serious Aggression Against the People of the United States

    This week, Senators Joe Lieberman and Dianne Feinstein engaged in acts of serious aggression against their own constituents, and the American people in general. They both invoked the 1917 Espionage Act …
    Reports yesterday suggest that U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder may seek to invoke the Espionage Act against Assange.
    These two Senators, and the rest of the Congressional and White House leadership who are coming forward in support of this appalling development, are cynically counting on Americans’ ignorance of their own history — an ignorance that is stoked and manipulated by those who wish to strip rights and freedoms from the American people. They are manipulatively counting on Americans to have no knowledge or memory of the dark history of the Espionage Act — a history that should alert us all at once to the fact that this Act has only ever been used — was designed deliberately to be used — specifically and viciously to silence people like you and me…’

  122. fixtheticket  December 10, 2010 at 9:18 pm

    or ok, maybe Julian Assange being on Russia Today is really ,really important and they are going to actually attempt to help convince the World that the whole hairy ball of nonsense about 911 is actually true;
    so now the biggest question left is,can they find anybody anywhere besides the JOHN HAGEE Congregation to say that with a straight face??
    how are those Art Lessons going??

  123. kate  December 10, 2010 at 8:59 pm

    ‘always goes there’ –

    ‘US defence chief in Gulf to discuss Iran, Yemen
    by Staff Writers
    Abu Dhabi
    (AFP) Dec 9, 2010
    US Defence Secretary Robert Gates is meeting on Thursday with Emirati leaders on Iran’s nuclear programme and Al-Qaeda threat in Yemen, as WikiLeaks exposed Gulf Arab fears of the Islamic republic…
    Their talks will touch on military cooperation and “challenges that we are working together to try to solve,” press secretary Geoff Morrell told reporters travelling with the Pentagon chief…
    Gates’ visit to the UAE capital comes hot on the heels of the leaking of US diplomatic cables by WikiLeaks, detailing dismay among Gulf Arab states about Iran’s controversial nuclear programme and its growing missile arsenal…’

  124. SAS  December 10, 2010 at 8:49 pm

    I do not know for sure! All that matters is creativity, productivity, and truth. So many people would have lower IQ’s if I made the test for them to answer the questions on.

  125. SAS  December 10, 2010 at 8:41 pm

    Well, my last sentence made little sense. Most of them cannot recognize the lies of the Jews, who probably made their IQ test in the first place.

  126. SAS  December 10, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    I agree. Anyone can claim to be “smart” by scoring high on a questionable IQ test, but in reality be quite dumb. It is by no means a valid way of measuring intelligence, and they are not capable of measuring creativity.

    “The guys who developed IQ tests are the same guys who wrote wargame theories. Always wrongfooting the innocent. These are the guys who own the education and academic institutions. Not to mention the media and politics.”

    You mean the Jews.

    If “high IQ” people are so smart, why has this world been so easily deceived by the Jews? They are actually so stupid, and most of them cannot see truth from Jew lies.

  127. fixtheticket  December 10, 2010 at 8:33 pm

    Ron Paul 2012,
    Would you prefer he gave a 2 hour press conference on it and just give more attention to it than it already has received ??
    Also I don’t think he know which rabbits or how many rabbits they are going to pull out next,(IT IS A MEDIA PRODUCTION !!)Lieberman,etc, would have just Loved it if he had made a lot of noise over it!

  128. fixtheticket  December 10, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    Weapons from Israel have also been popping up in a lot of places, haven’t they? 🙂

  129. Gordon Duff  December 10, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    I am also a German resident.

  130. Gordon Duff  December 10, 2010 at 8:09 pm

    Damn it George!!!
    I hope to hell I put quotation marks on that or I am in big trouble.

  131. Budreaux  December 10, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    Gordon didn’t say anything good about Gee W. Larry Elder did, Gordon reported what he gleened from the Elder article.

  132. Jim Dean  December 10, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    Much of this reaction can be attributed to long struggling activists hyperventilating at getting what they are believe are some licks in against ‘the system’. Some may have dreamed of being able to do this themselves.

    They don’t even stop to think about why is wiki-anarchy a stategic improvement? There is no accountbility…something we want to make elected government agree to, so why give Assange a free pass. What kind of selection process did we put him through to entrust him with this huge responsibility?

    There is an old saying…The witch you know is better than the one you don’t.

  133. Ron Paul 2012  December 10, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    I hear what your saying, it just bothers me that he doesn’t see wikileaks for what it really is. Or maybe he is just keeping his mouth shut about it.

  134. Ron Paul 2012  December 10, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    No Pepe, I don’t need your respect, thanks anyway…

  135. fixtheticket  December 10, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    Detlef Reimers ,
    be sure & stop by again!!

  136. george beres  December 10, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    WHY– HOW?– Can you risk placing the name of George Bush in the same sentence with being “restored to a place of honor”?? He never had honor to be restore to, and to even jest about it adds further folly to our deluded nation twice accepting him as president. –
    George Beres

  137. fixtheticket  December 10, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    for right now the Palestinians are fighting to stay alive and not have their kid’s organs “harvested” or starved to death,
    …….Julian Assange on Russia Today is kind of not real important or a big deal,
    Have you noticed all the creatures on American T.V.??,so your point is what??,

  138. rash  December 10, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    Well Colin Powell was very very very convincing at the Security Council after 9/11. This Wikithing is a twist in the right direction for war plotters. Folks you have to look at the news like those IQ test that is very popular with all kinds of employers nowadays (even though there is very little jobs available), those tests are really similar to the Machevellian politics/diplomacy and Hegelian dialectics. Henry Kissinger excels in IQ test, I am sure. Sometimes it’s A and sometimes it’s B. The tests are there to fool you into believing you didn’t get the job because you are dumb but the real reason is because there are too many applicants and very few positions.No wonder they get the person who is good in following orders. The guys who developed IQ tests are the same guys who wrote wargame theories. Always wrongfooting the innocent.These are the guys who own the education and academic institutions. Not to mention the media and politics..

  139. fixtheticket  December 10, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    Ron Paul 2012,
    so how about, Ron Paul could see through it too,(not real hard) and knows Lieberman,etc. want to close the net, so Ron Paul just went ahead and embraced it as a good thing and steal away the thunder so to speak ,etc. to move to shut down whatever they want.

  140. fixtheticket  December 10, 2010 at 7:10 pm


  141. Ron Paul 2012  December 10, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    Thanks Charlie Brown for your usual pointless input.

  142. Detlef Reimers  December 10, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    I’m from Germany and I’m always interested in the “real thing”, not the “story” told to the people. Mindsettig is a technique, which is used every day by your and also by our mainstream media.

    I wrote a blog 5 days ago in a german newspaper about WikiLeaks, where I also was very critical about the fact that all the mayor “target countrys” like turkey, lebanon, syria, especially iran and north corea are in the focus of the leaked cables, but not israel – not at all. I also put the Breszinsky video in that blog.

    It was interesting, what reaction I got. First, there was the powerful and omnipresent fraction of german pro-zionists, which allways comment directly on such blogs and try to denounce me as beeing anti semite – of course I’m not. You know, in Germany its very, very hard to even speek openly about these subjects, because those opponents always use our 12 years of fascist history to blame every critical thinkers. But I’m used to handle these arguments and I always point out the difference between the jewish religion and zionism as political agenda. Beeing polite and writing in distinct words brings those folks to the point where they get outraged, because of the lack of arguments on their side.

    There are also the other readers, who think they are smart enough to grasp the situation, but who refuse to answer the question, if it might be that they are mislead in a much more sophisticated way – by counter intelligence stategies. They just cannot believe, that this can be done to them, because the mindsetting related to WikiLeaks as beeing a victim makes them think, everything WikiLeaks does is done with good purpose. So they are easily fooled, but they think they got it right.

    This is the way, these tactics work and how especially critical thinkers can fall into a trap, made up by some really smart guys. I was a teacher for more than 22 years and I quit, because I refused to do things which should mislead young people and set their minds up for some quasi religios, radical green agenda, which would affect every citizen and and smash down our economy. We, as teachers were forced to promote these thoughts. In germany, we only had one time in our history (12 years) where teachers were not allowed to teach according to their own truely believes and I didn’t want to be part of this scam in our times. You can see from this example, how effectively mindsetting and counter intelligence techniques are used to make people believe, they are on the edge of the time, if they agree with an agenda, which itself was already set up by some smarter guys behind the sceenes.

    It should make every honest person in America wonder, why one can only read such profound article like this one from Gordon Duff on a veteran website. This article for me is true patriotic, it’s not war mongering or aggressive against any foreign country, but it shows the “real thing” and that is what we need nowadays all over the world.

    Detlef Reimers

  143. Still Removing Texas Shackles  December 10, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    How do I remove my subscription from your sorry Ass Duff?

  144. Ron Paul 2012  December 10, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    Wikileaks is a clever multi-pronged psy-op attack.
    They made sure that even if they lost they still won.
    The leaks will lead to internet censorship, guaranteed.

    911 is a perfect example, they lost(killed) 3000+ Americans and used it as an excuse to kill millions. See how this works?

  145. Ron Paul 2012  December 10, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    Looks like the FEDS already caught their first script kiddie:

    “16-Year-Old Arrested For Pro-WikiLeaks Cyber Attacks”

  146. Frank  December 10, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    Sorry me english isn’t so good. I do not know who’s behind but I know they using a scenario of a book that I read in the early ’70. With information/desinformation they try to start a war. They even found Assange who’s looking like the picture in the book and mentioned there as a “antichrist”. Strange comment??? Yes sure after more than 30 years I find it more crazy than you. This last weeks it came back and your article of a connection Israél/WikiLeak completed the scenario of the book.

  147. Ron Paul 2012  December 10, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    That surprised me too, as with Ron Pauls comments on wikileaks.
    Maybe Ray McGovern thinks we can use the leaks to run a counter-counter-intelligence operation?


  148. rash  December 10, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    Most of the masses are dumb anyway to figure out what or who is behind Wikileaks and Assange. There are always several motives for the Wikileaks. The people behind it always think long term. Maybe policing the internet is one motive and also regime change is another. It seems that the main power faction in the US is clearly in bed with the zionists. This is not something that just happened out of the blue. All news are carefully plotted.Take for example that in London students attacked Prince Charles and Camilla’s car with paint protesting against student fee hikes. Clearly the innocent bystanders have the impression yeah let’s make revolution. But then this takes planning. Who is behind the planning of student demonstrations? The people who take the lead in doing such things are not real students are they?. Clearly the police didn’t do much to protect the car. Is it to scare Prince Charles (the Archduke Ferdinand effect) or is to discredit the students. Clearly there is a game on. Don’t fall for the easy explanations folks. The plotters are working over time and very skillfull in deception.

  149. Penumbra  December 10, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    sorry 2nd correction: (2nd para) “That people have been murdered FOR exposing this fiction…”

  150. Penumbra  December 10, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    correction: (2nd para) “…wholesale slaughter AND only highlights…”

  151. Penumbra  December 10, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    “debunking wikileaks is childsplay”


    One doesn’t even have to progress beyond the first weasel word (not actually added to your count), “Al Qaida” to see through this tripe. Al Qaida never existed and no amount of “leaks” after the fact is going to give substance to a fiction, except amongst those too apathetic to have ever done any research or those for whom perpetuation of the fiction means continuing and escalating profit.

    That people have been murdered in years past to expose this fiction makes it the height of calumny that Assange or anyone associated with him should seek to use it for yet further wholesale slaughter only highlights the extent of their sociopathy.

    Par for the course I guess.

    (RIP: Robin Cook, David Kelley, and others)

    NB: That, of course, is not to say that the other weasel words like “chemical weapons/WMDs” vis a vis Iraq are any less glaringly fraudulent regurgitation of discredited claims. Anyone who followed Scott Ritter a few years back knows the truth of the matter.

  152. Budreaux  December 10, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    I just finished reading Raw Story’s interview with Ray McGovern and I’m surprised to note that he’s only looking at this as a boon for free speach/press and is not talking about the psyop aspect. This surprises me! Gordon, do you and Ray talk?

  153. reamonnk  December 10, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    “The “two weasel word in one sentence” bell has run again. My lunch contains unknown chemicals, “probably” from Iran.”


  154. Sudo Nim  December 10, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    Gordon, you really need to get this information out there … There are some otherwise great journalists (like Justin Raimondo) who have fallen for the Wikileaks narrative hook-line-and-sinker.

    It’s amazing how effective it’s been.

  155. Gordon Duff  December 10, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    debunking wikileaks is childsplay
    …how we find shills

You must be logged in to post a comment Login

From Veterans Today Network