It begins. An Anti-War Secessionist Movement is alive.

In today’s Time Magazine online we learn that in the State of Vermont, among perhaps the most left leaning population in the Union, a secessionist movement has started in the wake of these unpopular wars.  They have a slate of anti-war and secessionist candidates and they are running for office in the state. The piece is entitled Secessionist Campaign for the Republic of Vermont .

It seems that roughly 13% of the state’s population presently claims that they support the movement.  Here is an excerpt from the article:

“According to a 2007 poll, they have support from at least 13% of state voters. The campaign slogan, Naylor told me, is “Imagine Free Vermont.” In his fondest imaginings, Naylor said, Vermonters would not be “forced to participate in killing women and children in the Middle East.”

This is what happens when our nation continually engages in these ridiculous and unnecessary wars overseas without taking into account the wishes of her citizens.

This is what happens when Amerika places money and potential power grabs overseas ahead of the wishes of the people and instead caters to the whims of the military industrial complex, the emerging market manipulators, the war industry captains, the energy cartels and any other group that the Supreme Court has now given the powers of citizenship.

It is no accident that this is now public knowledge throughout the nation after the Supreme Court decided that money rules our political system.

No it does not.

We now face serious attempts at secession from citizens who have no intention of being ignored by the central government and its manipulting, puppet-master elites who constantly have access to the levers of power, regardless of the will of the citizens at large.

Fascism in our country is  now facing  a viable and growing citizens’ anti-war and secessionist movement willing to finance candidates who support state secession and an anti-war platform. 

We are talking about civil war ultimately if this carries through to its logical end.

Does Washington D.C. understand this?

This is the ultimate result of  generation upon generation of rule by the elites, rule by the Robber Barons, rule of money and its supposed power over the will of the people.  One man, one vote cannot be ignored forever. 

Money and its power is meaningless in this situation if civil war ensues because aware citizens realize that they have been preempted by money, power, position and ignorance of what it means to carry the burdens of working class America.

Don’t anybody ever say that I did not say for years, “I told you so!”

The chickens are coming home to roost.

CWO3 Tom Barnes, USCG (Ret.)


The views expressed herein are the views of the author exclusively and not necessarily the views of VT, VT authors, affiliates, advertisers, sponsors, partners, technicians, or the Veterans Today Network and its assigns. LEGAL NOTICE - COMMENT POLICY

Posted by on January 31, 2010, With Reads Filed under WarZone. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

67 Responses to "It begins. An Anti-War Secessionist Movement is alive."

  1. Commissioned Jarhead  February 4, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    So in your mind Jack, the Declaration of Independence must have been an affirmation of our fealty to the English Crown.

    You really do need to learn something about the Constitution in a literal sense.

    Put this on your reading list, The Real Lincoln, by Thomas Di Lorenzo.

    Your ad hominem aside, I can’t completely fault you, after all, you are a product of your training. That’s what I’ll always appreciate about the training I received, our ability to think for ourselves was actually encouraged and enhanced.

  2. Tom Dillman  February 4, 2010 at 12:47 am

    Give Spratt a break. It could be, it just could be that he is also right! Tom

  3. Tom Dillman  February 4, 2010 at 12:44 am

    Thank you for quoting my great, great, great….grandfather or whatever he was. Tom

  4. Tom Dillman  February 4, 2010 at 12:44 am

    And hats off to Texas, though the skiing sucks down here.

  5. Tom Dillman  February 4, 2010 at 12:42 am

    The Civil War was actually started over the price the South could sell their cotton to Europe. The Federal Government wanted to control the price, not the farmers. Gettinig rid of slavery (a good plan!) was a moral afterthought, especially since Boston and New York were two of the biggest slavery import cities. I acknowledge my point of view is a bit biased, but my family arrived in “America” in 1605 and help set up the first surviving Virginia Colony. My family tree includes Thomas Jefferson, U.S. Grant, and Daniel Boone. We’ve been color-blind Americans since 1605 (and before). Tom

  6. Tom Dillman  February 4, 2010 at 12:34 am

    Well said, Jay. I hope you mean it. But as I said, American Idol followed by Fox News and then the basketball game are coming on. I’ve got to go. Tom

  7. Tom Dillman  February 4, 2010 at 12:32 am

    Now, now skinny — or is that fatty? You’d be a hero in Pasadena, Texas. So might I with my kitchen fork for defense. Tom

  8. Tom Dillman  February 4, 2010 at 12:29 am

    Whoa John — A man who actually thinks before his mouth gets in gear! Very good!
    Write again,my friend!

  9. Tom Dillman  February 4, 2010 at 12:27 am

    I enjoyed Atlas Shrugged! Tom

  10. Tom Dillman  February 4, 2010 at 12:26 am

    Thank you for your Service, Mr. Spratt. You are a thoughtful American. Tom

  11. Tom Dillman  February 4, 2010 at 12:24 am

    Hi J — Sounds good to me, but American Idol is coming on and I have to leave this thought process short. Tom

  12. Tom Dillman  February 4, 2010 at 12:23 am

    Jeez, JR, I hope you’re not talking about me. With all these Agent Orange prostate issues, the “f” word doesn’t fit my particular form of idiocy.


  13. Tom Dillman  February 4, 2010 at 12:20 am

    Stininkey, or Stinky, or whatever, you’ve been eating too much anyway. Plus, it sounds like somebody has put too much B.S. in your smoothies, anyway.

  14. Tom Dillman  February 4, 2010 at 12:17 am

    Thank you Paul

  15. Tom Dillman  February 4, 2010 at 12:15 am

    Thank you Don!

  16. Samuel Adams  February 3, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    Ed, in all fairness, is that really the issue ?

    It’s the FED GOV that made sweet lies to every American who unwittingly trusted them.

    Yes, of course, old debts & promises should be paid – but who is the obligated party, in the case of SS ?

    Vermont’s secession impulse if motivated by the firm KNOWLEDGE of the impossibility of all the SSA debt – and the fradulent nature of the relationship of citizen claimants for the trillions of dollars yet to be paid, that must come from either forced taxation or printed willy nilly by the Federal Reserve, at the cost of extreme inflation to ALL Americans.

    The SS fund is broke – has for 30 years been broke – face the facts.

    The CBO admits it every year, but government slaves (if you think they OWE you a cushy retirement, that includes YOU), refuse to listen to the more objective voice of the CBO, in preference to the sweet lies of the DemoPublicans & Republicrat Party.

    I know this is tough medicine. Don’t even try to blame Liberty minded Vermonters – or Patriots anywhere with the blame due to the FED.

    I will predict that an economy that is ‘unshackled’ from the sinking National morass can only rise, and that raises all boats, including yours….more than we may expect…..hope that give you hope……it does to all us other Patriots.

    Your state (assuming you’re a Vermonter) or mine, should, as part of declaring it’s Sovereignty, also repeal legal tender laws, thus allowing competeting currency & gold & silver, etc to enter the Free Market – see Ron Paul’s book End the Fed for more details on that strategy…..

  17. Samuel Adams  February 3, 2010 at 3:46 pm


    No, still fighting that ‘new war’. The Principles are the same – they’ve never changed. And any debate on Principle lost, remains lost, until Righted.

    Our current Federal mess is a result of a festering 150 year old decision to hide our heads in the sand – and re-enthrone a false & deceptive philosophy – that delusion of old, that Centralized Statism is an earthly savior.

    Such unbridled power ALWAYS becomes a rival to God & tramples the rights of the people. (I Samuel, chapter 8 lays out the sad template, of old)

    This Tower of Babel will fall, but exactly how & when, we can only guess.

    I think while it was bloody in 1860, it need not be this time.

    Especially with the wide diffusion of knowledge & power that it brings to the Patriots of the several States, thru the Internet – we can know study the original Principles of the Founding Fathers – which is why we are beginning to see diverse groups (on traditional Right & Left, both) in widely spread states ‘revert’ – return – repent, back to Principles of Federalism & Liberty !

    “Remove not the Landmark which thy Fathers have set” – says the Scriptures, which is why we cannot go forward aright, until we have corrected our trajectory by looking backward for guidance.

    Have you read “Molon Labe”, the novel by Boston T. Party ?- It lays out how a state or confederation of states can separate from the corrupted rest by Honoring & Standing upon Constitution Principle.

    This is very different situation than in 1860, which was then a regional divide – it had a border fairly well defined.

    Today’s divide is more separate states which demand Liberty + Rural vs. City assumptions.

    I don’t claim to understand all that those factors portends – only that the struggle today has some key differences.

    I guess an analogy might be, that the War between the States (‘civil war’, commonly called), was like the old Army VS Army on the straight battlefield – european / English style. Who wins that war ? Biggest, Most men, most weapons, most everytime.

    The new divide / conflict, is super diverse states that sometimes cluster, contiguous.

    So what do Vermont, Wyoming/Montanta/Utah, & Tennesse or Texas have in common ? Ethics & Principles & a strong sense of their own self government, but they’re widely spread, very diverse from each other, but they generally speaking, HATE what the Fed Gov has come to be & affect them to be.

    So, if the War Between The States was ARMY VS ARMY, the new confilct is much more like ARMY vs. MULTIPLE, WIDELY SPREAD INSURGENTS – way harder to win, as no matter where you turn, opponents are on every side.

    And when the opponents are some of the most productive, most Principled, most devoted, most thoughtful Americans – who DEMAND their States enforce their Natural & God given right to Sovereignty (right to rule their proper sphere of authority), the real question becomes:

    How could the Patriot & State Sovereignty move NOT suceed ?

    Its Lawful, while the other is UNLAWFUL. The first obey the highest Principles, Natural Law, Biblical Law & The Law of Nations, in short all the Founding Fathers Principles.

    At it’s best, this is a revival of genuine Christian Statesmanship.

    Contrarywise, the Centralizing Statists are dishonoring to every Principle of Natural Law & the Founders – indeed, it’s especially Idolatrous from a Biblical standard in that it recognizes no limits on it’s own powers (and I can assure you, if that raises your sense of righteous indignation as it does mine, just think how mad GOD & His SON in heaven is at the insult – see Psalm 2 & Psalm 110 for the details).

    This UNlawful drive for Centralized Power may rightly be classed with every tryannical regieme in history – take your pick – Cain, Nimrod, Pharoah, Alexander the Perverted, Rome, Middle ages England, Marx, Lennin, Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot & now the US World Empire ?

    26 world dominating empires (I left out many of antiquity) have come & gone – what makes Amerika invincible ?

    And again, those Psalm 2 & 110, and Molon Labe by Boston T Party lay out an insightful possible future, one where the wicked mainly harm themselves, as they damn their own souls, and where God protects, prospers & blesses those who obey Him & our nations Founders.

    God be praised – because these prophetic outlines provide a lot more hope than my worst dreams !

    Molon Labe !

    “We’re in God’s hands brother, not in theirs !” – Christian King Henry V to his depressed & doubtful soldiers on the eve of their smashing victory over the French at Agincourt, outnumbered & ill equipped as they were…..

    Samuel Adams
    In the Spirit of ’76

  18. Bob Higgins  February 3, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Still fighting that old war?

    There are some more recent problems that require attention from all of those who can extract their heads from the mid nineteenth century and deal with present reality.
    Just a thought.

    Sorry about Grandpa, but sons and grandfathers were slaughtered wholesale on both sides.

  19. Ernest  February 3, 2010 at 10:20 am

    It’s high time that the momentous “Articles of Freedom”, the ‘works’ of the Continental Congress 2009 that took place last November with delegates elected from all over the country, take center stage.

    This historic document lays it all out on the line. This document serves effectively as the rallying cry for American Patriots to demand full redress from a wayward U.S. Federal Government. READ IT and pass it ON.

  20. PapaKilo  February 3, 2010 at 4:22 am

    Dwight Eisenhower minced a metaphor when he created the phrase “military-industrial complex.” It is a very concise description of fascism, but he couldn’t come right out and call his old boss a fascist. Nevertheless, that is what Franklin Delano Roosevelt was and we have been been a corporatist state ever since. Marine General Smedley Butler also had a concise description of our adventures that run contrary to the Jefferson and Washington’s admonishments to avoid foreign entanglements. He called it a “racket.” That was back when racket also described criminal syndicates. Butler was one of those rare breeds who won two Congressional Medals of Honor.

  21. jenkinsbrigade  February 3, 2010 at 2:50 am

    To call Lincoln “our greatest President” is to impugn the memory of my great-great-grandfather and the millions of other Southern men who volunteered to defend their home states against Union tyranny. Lincoln saved nothing — he destroyed the America of the Founding Fathers by demonstrating that he who has the most guns makes the rules. Is that what you call “the last, best hope for humanity”? You are deluded, sir.

  22. Donald Reid  February 3, 2010 at 2:31 am

    Just think, jackspratt, had you been alive 145 years ago and an active duty US soldier you could have taken part in the very worst, most deadly act of terrorism in the history of America, Sherman’s March Through Geoergia.

  23. Ed  February 3, 2010 at 1:45 am

    Will the Vermont Free Republic make good on the social security and medicare payments for Vermonters over 65?

  24. jackspratt  February 3, 2010 at 12:41 am

    whatever loser. My 3x great granpa probably shot yours. Get over it, redneck!

  25. Matt  February 3, 2010 at 12:33 am


    Obviously you’ve never heard of the Hartford Convention. That was New Englanders threatening to secede if they were forced to provide support for the War of 1812.

    Many New England abolitionists likewise advocated secession from the Union that they saw as the protector of slaveholders. They believed, as was later demonstrated in Brazil, that secession, releasing them from obligation to obey the Fugitive Slave Act and other laws protecting the institution of slavery, would cause the system to collapse under its own weight if the free states refused to remand escaped slaves back to bondage.

    The difference is that apparently New Englanders are all talk and Southerners at one time were brave (or foolish?) enough to put their money where their mouths were.

    Threats of nullification and outright secession by the states provide the only real check on the aspirations of the federal government. As has been said here already, the representatives and senators we send to Washington almost always end up captured by the system, and they can’t be relied on to do right.

    Unfortunately now so many grandchildren of the Confederacy have offered themselves to be the backbone of Caesar’s legions. This is, after all, the modus operandi of empires: draw the manpower needed for further conquest from your already-occupied territories.

    I’d bet that their ancestors are spinning in their graves.

  26. jackspratt  February 3, 2010 at 12:17 am

    This is my last post here. I understand the southern trash and their neo=confederate nonsense as I was stationed at FT Benning once and saw plenty of rebel types. They are losers now and were losers then. How can Vermonters, solid loyal Americans always, possibly be on the same side of history as those people? Like I posted before, if it was wrong (and it WAS!) in 1861, it is still wrong now!

  27. Ralf E Dieckmann  February 2, 2010 at 11:42 pm

    Stinkey, you are a filthy swine

  28. rebelyell  February 2, 2010 at 11:37 pm

    Great article Tom. Please keep up the good fight and know your endeavors are appreciated.

    Pat H. Your well spoken comments mirror my own stance on this matter. That the war of Northern Aggression against the South was unconstitutional and Lincoln was a traitor to his country as well as forsworn in his oath of office is well known by even the most casual student of American history. That anybody would take a stance otherwise only serves to illuminate either their affiliations or their ignorance.

    Jackspratt. I honestly hope you search out wise council among your fellow service members in your quest for truth. You have either been mislead, brainwashed or you have sold out. Which ever the case may be, you are currently standing on the wrong side of a chasm that shall become a bottomless pit for this country, if not the world.

    Think long and hard about jumping over while you can.

  29. Matt  February 2, 2010 at 11:34 pm

    There’s a reason why the oath contains the part about defending the Constitution FIRST and obeying orders SECOND: because a state of affairs could arise where the people giving orders ARE the enemies of the Constitution.

    I’ve had about all I can stand of being expected to throw myself at the feet of “veterans” who signed up for the oldest statist institution in all of human history, then spent their hitch in Okinawa in the 80’s drinking their ass off.

    I understand that many young impressionable men and women sign up for the military with good intentions. They truly believe that they’re keeping the world safe from democracy. America has always been a warrior culture in my opinion and we do need people like this.

    But at some point you have to shake off the propaganda and face facts. You don’t keep me safe from shit. Not terrorists, not the Pashtun tribesmen who’s idea of force projection is a donkey cart, and certainly not the enemies of the Constitution. In case you haven’t noticed, while you’ve been busy wasting women and children in the Middle East, your freedoms, and mine, have been eroding all around you.

    If you want to protect my freedoms, start at Capitol Hill and 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Then I’ll honor your service, up there with people like Daniel Shays and the Tennessee vets who sacked the sheriff of McMinn Co. in 1946. Men like these were the true stewards of liberty. Anyone “serving” today in our all-volunteer military is little more than a mercenary for corporate interests and imperial aspirations.

  30. Benjacomin Bozart  February 2, 2010 at 11:25 pm

    Killing old people, women, children, and babies, by bomb, bullet, missile, or starvation is criminal, especially in wars of aggression. Catholics should be awake now to the lies of the Republicans. Roberts, the corporations Justice, and Alito, the Federalist Justice, joined with a majority to overturn 100 years of precedent and Congressional laws in the Citizens United case. Somehow precedent is the reason they haven’t overturned Roe v Wade and a myriad of related cases. They need abortion as a club issue to beat idiots into line. They have no intention of changing that.

    The Republicans that have no problem with criminal perpetual war, torture, mass murder, and dictatorship (all of them)have been joined by neo-con Dems in the desecration of the Constitution. The Federalist lied and their heirs continue to lie. Secession now. The Revolution was fought for the Declaration of Independence.

  31. K Smith  February 2, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    I married into a family directly descended from one of the Sons of Liberty of Savannah, Georgia. We refer to what is erroneously called the Civil War as the War of Northern Aggression.

  32. j r  February 2, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    These people are trying to defend the Constitution from domestic enemies. Full representation? Are you kidding? Our ‘representatives’ are owned by big money. You either haven’t been paying attention for the last few decades or you’re a dipshit. Or most likely, both.

  33. Samuel Adams  February 2, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    Jack, it was the God of heaven that gave us our Liberty, not simply the men who fought for either the North or South. Our rights come from HIM, not merely veterans or even ‘we the people’.

    The view you express here, ends up “Deifying” the State – you can’t go to any higher authority if men are all you own allegiance to or swear an oath to.

    That is why it was Biblical Christianity that gave birth to America, not Darwinist survival of the fittest. Even Lincoln (as much as I disagree with his use of violent force against the South) quoted Scripture in his works.

    When I perused his 2nd Inagural address – on the wall of his memorial in DC – quoted Scripture at least 7 times.

    Your impulse to see national greatness in the Constitution is good, but remember, if as you said ‘secession is illegal’ then you would never have had America in the first place – Britain had prior claim, right ? We would have been illegally seceeding from them, using your logic.

    But it wasn’t illegal – it was the Right thing to do. Read the Declaration of Independence to discern the Principles of why it was so.

    This is why we cannot read the Constitution properly, while ignoring the Declaration – to do so is to render it context-less – It alone articulates the foundation upon which was later built the Constitution.

    I would also recommend the lectures by Dr. Paul Jehle called :

    Our Christian Constitution – they’re fabulous to detail the Biblical Worldview of the Founders & trace the Principles back to the Northwest Ordinance & the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut, predating the Founders articulation of them back to 1685 or so.

    I may be able to post these lectures on an open site for simple access if anyone wants to download them. Maybe they’re ‘out there’ elsewhere ? Email me at:

    Psalm2[AT] if you want me to post them for access & let you know where they can be accessed.

    God bless Vermont & the Republic,

    Samuel Adams

  34. Samuel Adams  February 2, 2010 at 8:29 pm


    Good point. I like to simply put it the other way ’round: Right makes Might.

    It seems paradoxical, and so it is. But remember, assumptions determine conclusions. Most of the time, our assumptions are hidden, or hard to ferret out. Even our own assumptions may be unexamined.

    (aka: epistemological self-consciousness; being aware of how you know, what you know. Also try to acheive: epistemological awareness of others: what are their assumptions. This goes to the logic of Sun Tzu’s comment about knowing one self & knowing ones’ enemy, too.)

    Truly, we need a few things to help us examine our own premises:

    A great wife.
    Faithful Friends.
    Historically verified witnesses (Founding Fathers, etc)
    God, the Holy Spirit. (the source of our Rights)

    As St. Augustine said: “The unexamined life is not worth living.”

    Once we have enjoyed the soul cleansing, (not that we ever achieve it perfectly in this fallen world, yet strive…), we can more articulately stand for Liberty.

    I said what I said to Jack, as I think his impulse is right, but his aim was off. He called it traitorous to ‘talk of secession, against the union’ – but this is not truly logical. All proper Union, may only be around Right Principle, not wrong or distortions of Principle.

    The real Principles in the Declaration & Constitution have been violated with increasing frequency in our lifetimes – with the FED GOV being the primary culprit. So, if one is to remain true to the Constitution & our Principles of Liberty in the Declaration, it may impel us to separate ourselves from Tyranny.

    Which is to say, we prize Union with proper Principle, above comfortable, reassuring Wrongs.

    Above all, there must be Higher Law. Absent that, Jack is right, and we are wrong, Might does make Right. This is pure Darwinian, survival of the fittest – Marxism, Hitlerian doctrine.

    But our system is based upon Christian assumptions of the self willingly putting aside passion, to honor Principle, to love our neighbors & their property & liberty above our own.

    It is no more truly seen than in the willing self-sacrifice of Jesus Christ – the Redemption of all humanity – He who had made the very Heavens & Earth, willingly laying down his life for those who took it. In this sense, at that moment, and for all time, the path was laid: “Right truly does make Might.”

    Fortune not only favors the bold, but doubly so the Righteous !

    For Christ & Liberty,

    Samuel Adams
    Texas Republic

  35. terrymac  February 2, 2010 at 7:58 pm

    @CD: It would be more useful to google “rotten boroughs”

  36. dissonance  February 2, 2010 at 7:48 pm

    how sad that you have absolutely ZERO grasp on history or the underpinnings of the creation of this nation.

    I’d suggest reading some John Locke and Thomas Hobbes so that you might better understand how social contracts work.

  37. jackspratt  February 2, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    i can’t believe this is a veteran’s site. This certainly would not have passed muster when America’s real Greatest Generation (the Union men who built the Nation we have now) were still around. To call Lincoln, again our greatest President, a criminal is to impugn the memory of millions of Union vets who gave all to save this goverment which was then, and is now, the last, best hope for humanity. How sad that most of you think you can just throw it all away.

  38. Scott  February 2, 2010 at 7:32 pm

    “Secession is ILLEGAL. this was proved legally in 1869 by the Supreme Court case of Texas v. White. Check it out.”

    No, this was NOT “proved legally.” This decision was merely another judicial fiat that had ZERO constitutional basis whatsoever, just like Roe v. Wade (one example among hundreds) decision over a century later.

    “2. Secession is illegal by precedent and by the awesome power of the United States Army. Abraham Lincoln, our greatest president, proved this through his actions.”

    Once again, a criminal act does NOT serve as legal precedent just because it goes unchallenged or unpunished. NOTHING that Abraham Lincoln or his fellow state-corporate criminals did had ANY legal, constitutional justification whatsoever, a fact made loudly and clearly known at the time by SCOTUS Chief Justice Roger B. Taney, to whom Lincoln responded with a public threat of summary imprisonment without trial – another obvious violation of the Constitution/BoR and a criminal breach of executive power.

    C’mon Jackie, do us all a favor and just admit it: You’re nothing but a fascist thug that seeks to impose martial law, giving you and your criminal cohorts a chance to exercise unrestrained violence against your fellow citizens, something you’ve no doubt been training for in Iraqghanistan for the past several years. Not only are you ignorant of the document you swore an oath to uphold, but contemptuous of it as well.

  39. Scott  February 2, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    How totally unsurprising that jackspratt, one of those uniformed “domestic” enemies of the Constitution, has neither read that document he swore an oath to uphold and defend (at least I HOPE they’re still administering that oath; rumor has it that the passage concerning upholding and defending the Constitution has been removed from the oath of enlistment/commissioning) nor studied American history. Had he done either one, he would realize that the states, as sovereign and self-governing entities, pre-date any union formed under the Constitution and that said union is preserved only under a narrow set of specific conditions and purely at the discretion of the citizens of the individual states to maintain it. The criminal actions of jackspratt’s idol, Abraham Lincoln (America’s first executive dictator) and his conspirators at all levels of the federal government who sought to keep the union together through acts of criminal violence do not justify the atrocities committed during four years of crime, 1861-1865, nor do they serve as LEGAL or CONSTITUTIONAL precedent for repeating the process in this century.

    Much as I hope that I’m wrong in my assumption, Jackspratt and his ilk appear to represent what I’m afraid is a majority in today’s imperial legions: people motivated not by patriotism or the desire to otherwise “defend our freedoms”, but by economic necessity (the destruction of the domestic economy by the ruling kleptocrats leaves them without private-sector employment prospects) or, in rarer cases, a misguided need for purpose in life that manifests itself in the urge to commit acts of aggressive armed violence against others, at home or abroad. Far from recognizing the illegality and unconstitutionality of the bulk of their uniformed activities or their moral and legal OBLIGATION to disobey orders that are contrary to the contents of the document they swore above all else to uphold, they blindly submit to whatever orders they are given and allow themselves to be co-opted for purely mercenary purposes.

    Change is in the air, however. I seriously doubt that jackspratt or many of his fellow imperial legionnaires will continue to mindlessly and slavishly serve the Amerikan Empire once that day in the very near future arrives when the empire’s national currency collapses and he finds himself as penniless, impoverished, and desperate as those whom he believes he thinks he’s “defending.” At that point he’ll either wake up, or he’ll simply turn into an armed brigand like many of the other unsavory characters currently “defending our freedoms.”

  40. jackspratt  February 2, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    Wow. I am amazed by the traitorous nonsense on this board.
    1. Secession is ILLEGAL. this was proved legally in 1869 by the Supreme Court case of Texas v. White. Check it out.
    2. Secession is illegal by precedent and by the awesome power of the United States Army. Abraham Lincoln, our greatest president, proved this through his actions.
    Vermonters are just being spoiled. Kinda like taking your ball and going home when you aren’t liking the game. Grow up.

    “The Union forever/Hurrah boys hurrah/Down with the Traitors/And up with the Star!”

  41. Pat H  February 2, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    It’s really too bad that you know so little of the Constitution you claim to defend.

    The Tenth Amendment to the US constitution guarantees the state power to secede at any time.

    It was Abraham Lincoln and his corporatist supporters that violated the Constitution, not the several states that lawfully seceded.

    If it is supporting and defending the Constitution that is your goal, then you will defend the state power to secede.

    Last, I am a veteran of 30 years military service, as such I assert that it is you who had better think long and hard about your unConstitutional stand.

  42. Derek D  February 2, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    What Constitution are you defending? I served as did the author. If you think this qualifies you as having some unique perspective you are wrong. The Constitution and history surrounding it are fully available for review from infinite sources. And in every instance a clear philosophy of limiting the power of the central government, secession as required, and anti military imperialism permeates. Furthermore the South seceded in protest over unfair taxes, the same reason the US declared its independence. So then, as today, hundreds of thousands died to protect the financial interests of an unjust government. Even freeing the slaves was nothing more than a strike against cheap labor in the south, to protect financial interests in the North. It wasn’t “altruistic humanity” as we are all lead to believe. Any student of history knows this. You sound like a dummy that follows whatever marching orders he’s given because he was given a gun and menial salary. But if you think you are defending the Constitution you are a complete fool. Our Constitution does not lay the framework for anything you are doing as a soldier. Do you think you can really wedge the abomination we are engaged in in Iraq and Afghanistan into the context of the US Constitution? HA!

    You are a footsoldier for NWO imperialism. I respect you as a soldier but the marching orders handed down to you from your corrupt leadership have nothing to do with the America set forth by the US Constitution. I’m sorry you put your life on the line under such false pretense. But the fact is you do. Take care of yourself…

  43. Stininkey  February 2, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    As pointed out in the book “Lincoln: Uber Alles” – the correct term for the war would be “The second war of secession” as the first war of secession was against England.

  44. Pat H  February 2, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    Mr. Barnes, though Vermont is well along with their secession movement, so are we in the South.

    Additionally, ours is likewise, an anti-foreign military adventurism movement as can be seen by one of our logos:

    We’ve been opposed to sending sons and caughters of the South for the bankers military machines for more than a decade.

  45. Stininkey  February 2, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    Well put. Regarding: “They teach in it’s place a view that elevated men & the State – so that elite men may rule other men – the same elitist, man-is-god philosophy, aka ‘Statism’ – which is pure idolatry.”
    It is easier to say, that they teach our children that “Might makes right”. No matter who has the correct, fair and moral high ground, when the Police say to do something, you do it. No matter what. Even subtle programs like the football teams teach our children that “might makes right”. This is the though we must counter. All parents must constantly emphasize to their Children that it is important to FIGHT against unjust powers, not submit to them, as the Government schools teach. Teach your children to attack and kill anyone who violates the Constitution.

  46. Stininkey  February 2, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    Jackspratt; By your logic, we should invade Canada again (and win this time) and Mexico, and every other country in the world should become a State in the United States. How big of a country do you need? What would be wrong with Texas being a separate country and member of NATO? Like Canada is? Why is it good for the Soviet Union to break into separate small nations, but not Amerika?

  47. Stininkey  February 2, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    If we don’t kill babies, old people, and young soldiers we will all die from starvation. The earth can only produce so much food. If 3 million men hadn’t been killed in the vietnam war, there would be 360 million more mouths to feed today. (3 generations of 3 kids each) The whole reason the Government must take over health care decisions, is because of new life extending procedures, like bypass surgery, and cloning new organs. Right now, when a rich 70 year old Senator tells the Doctor to give him bypass surgery, the Doctor says “you are too old”. The Senator will fix this, by passing laws saying only Senators get to decide who lives and dies, not doctors.

  48. Locke  February 2, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    “…If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation….to a continuance in the union….I have no hesitation in saying, ‘let us separate’…”
    -Thomas Jefferson

  49. Big Red  February 2, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    If you soldier boys would obey your oath,we would’nt be in this mess!

  50. Samuel Adams  February 2, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    Jack S. Pratt:

    Thank you for your service to our country.

    May I remind you that you take an oath to a Principle, and that is (amongst other aspects…) that no one is above the Law ?

    But what Law ? If Law comes soley from man, and the man commanding you tells you that ‘union is more important than ANY other factor’, then you will call those of us who love Liberty, as you did, ‘Traitors’.

    But any who do this, do this in ignorance. When men begin to embrace evil, good men MUST separate from them, or join them in their wickedness.

    Your commander is not the Law, your general is not the Law, the Congress is not the Law, the President is not the Law.

    God, alone, is the Lawgiver – the Declaration recognizes this – when it declares that our rights are based upon….’the Laws of Nature & the Laws of Nature’s God’, which refers to “Natural Law” & “Biblical Law”, or to quote John Witherspoon, our Founder, ‘General Revelation’ & ‘Special Revelation’.

    Please find a copy, note that it – the Declaration of Independence – is a statement of Principle – that guide the Constitution that followed it. To honor the latter, we must understand the former.

    “God given, UNalienable rights…” based upon the “laws of Nature & of Nature’s God” and ‘government governs by the consent of the governed….governments are established to secure these rights, amongst which are life, liberty…..and that when any government so established shall become destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government…”

    When the government goes bad, citizens of good conscience & real Christian Patriots ‘re-read the Instructions’ – which is why I quote at length the Declaration & the Founders – all this also is found in Scriptures of the Bible.

    Most likely few of us were taught this…100 years ago…every child was !

    In fact 90 % of Americans of our generation were NOT taught this, but were conditioned to think exactly the opposite – by the subtle social planners, who subtly eroded the foundations of Liberty by teaching a false & deficient view of God, man & Law. And, many of us are it’s victims.

    They taught in it’s place a view that elevated men & the State – so that elite men may rule other men – the same elitist, man-is-god philosophy, aka ‘Statism’ – which is pure idolatry.

    It will use unthinking fighters to be it’s ‘storm troopers’ – unwitting thugs who don’t question if their orders are Lawful – how can they if they think that Law originates with men, instead of Higher Law that is binding upon all men – even leaders ?

    This is why Spiritual revival is essential pre-requisite for any successful Liberty movement – long term.

    “We will not fight our battles alone, God will raise up powerful friends on our behalf !” – Patrick Henry, in his Liberty or Death speech.

    We must repent, realize we have been duped & conditioned and beg God to teach us the truth while there is still time to avert the coming storm.

    We have no choice, if we are to avoid bloodshed. NOBODY (except the cowardly fascist planners – who send Warriors out to do their bloody work) wants to see civil war. I PRAY every day, that a peaceful solution is at hand.

    Fascist powers, infecting both parties equally – have taken control over the apparatus of government. We must quit being duped by partisanship – there is only ONE party today – the one fascist party with two wings, of total government control.

    They fail to admit that ONLY self government & family government & church government, under God, is the real government of these several States. They want you & I to think in their terms – where we think that ‘civil government’ is the only solution, the only sphere in which to take action. Ha ! For it is the assumptions that govern the first three that determine the shape of the latter.

    Now admittedly, you may not have seen bold action by many upstanding leaders – so YOU need to be one. I need to be one. Our children are being trained to be them.

    “Authority automatically flows to anyone who takes responsibility.”

    Who will stand up & be counted ?

    Church leaders, who should be sounding the alarm, have turned into cowards – state sponsored churches that are like spiritual Sominex – so that today’s weakened Christians NEVER think to limit the State – even though the ONLY thing to ever limit the state has been God’s total authority, but men’s limited, delegated jurisdiction, ALWAYS to be checked & balanced by competing / complimentary jurisdictions – (witness the growing state sovereignty movements against the Federal Government – the entire point of this article).

    So tiny a wise woman as Mother Teresa – the heroic Christian witness advised:

    “Stop waiting for leaders. Do it yourself – person to person.”

    That is real self, family & church government, right there !

    Thomas Jefferson, on how God’s authority anchors rights & liberty:

    “Can the Liberties of the people be secure, when we have removed their only firm basis in the minds of the people, that those Liberties are the gift of God, and that they are not to be violated, but by his wrath ? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I consider that God is just, and that his Justice cannot sleep forever ?

    By understanding & studying our Heritage & it’s foundational Principles, under God, can our rights be secured.

    “The greater the difference a nation puts between it’s thinkers & it’s warriors, the more likely it is to have fighting men who are fools, and leaders who are cowards.” – Sir Edward Butler

    Which are we ? What will it take for us to avoid being ‘fighting men who are fools led by leaders who are cowards’ ?

    I would be remiss & ungrateful to not share my sources: Institute On The Constitution: Online or DVD – the Worldview of the Founding Fathers, uncensored, non PC – Original Sources. – Modern day Minuteman training – taught by volunteers, in every state. Learn colonial marksmanship – hit targets out to 500 yards. “Boston’s Gun Bible” & “Molon Labe” – 2 essential books, containing Principles for the defense of Liberty – articulating Truth is more powerful than bullets, but not always a replacement for it. For Thinking Patriots – these are must read material. – Muster in DC on April 19th, 2010, the anniversary of Lexington & Concord battle.

    I thank you & any who have listened to my (hopefully profitable) rantings here.

    I’d love to hear what other have to say, too.

  51. Paul Revere II  February 2, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    I like to ski Killington in Vermont would I have to get papers?

    I agree though what do you do when the Federal Gov has gone too far? You got to try something… Hats off to Vermont.. An awesome beautiful state.

  52. LibertyLover  February 2, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    Tom, secession wouldn’t result in a civil war. Secession is just a divorce. A civil war means an attempted takeover of the entire country. This is why the war in 1861 is incorrectly labeled The Civil War. The South was defending their liberty. Their independence was at stake. They had no interest in replacing the existing federal government. They just wanted to be left alone. They wanted to be the deciders of their own fate. If a human being doesn’t harm another person or their property, shouldn’t they be allowed to do whatever they want?

  53. Don  February 2, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    The same sort of traitorous talk of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and the others who – if we had lost the revolutionary war – would have been hung for treason but, since we won the war, are considered our nation’s founding fathers. Full representation? Nobody in Washington represents me. In our political election system 51 people are represented and the other 49 aren’t. I voted for Ron Paul in Georgia for president and Georgia threw my vote away b/c Paul was a state “approved” candidate. Represented? What a cliche’. Grow up. The oath you say we take is also the oath the politicians take and yet 90% of our government budget goes to unconstitutional and immoral activities. The federal government is not America. America consists of its people, its land and its spirit, the American spirit. The government is just an oppressive entity in America and Vermont has – as does anyone – the God given right to no longer be forced against their free will to be a part of that government. This makes them no less American but rather it is the very essence of the American spirit to fight for freedom.

  54. Jay  February 2, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    Our government has trampled the constitution. No thinking person can believe that our oath to the constitution denies us the ability to seceded at this point.

    As a veteran I saw firsthand that the military no longer exists to defend the interests of the people of America. It exists to defend international commerce and keep the financial system running smoothly. It is not a bad force, in fact there are many benefits to having a globalist military that keeps trade flowing but it certainly has nothing to do with patriotism at this point.

    A true warrior fights for what he believes in and needs no appreciation or applause. Those who seek appreciation for their battles are mecenaries and prostitutes. A military that blames public opinion for its performance has already embraced a mentality of losers.

    Fight each day as if it were the last battle of your life, fight without caring for anyone else’s approval, fight only for what you believe in and are directly responsible for. Follow orders only if you believe in them yourself. Then you will be a real warrior and not a prostitute.

  55. 1776jedi  February 2, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    Vermonters want to leave specifically because their elected representatives, along with those of other states, refuse to honor their commitment to the Constitution and have expanded the power of the Federal Government beyond it’s constitutional limits. Killing your fellow Americans for wanting to have their freedom from an overbearing Federal Government that exercises unconstitutional power is “Worthwhile”? That’s a little like killing your wife because she’s fed up with being beaten all the time and wants a divorce. I think you fail to understand the difference between swearing your allegiance to the Constitution, and the Federal Government. I’m sure that you would have no problem seizing firearms from Citizens if it was the “law” and you were ordered to do it. I certainly have no problem firing on Federal troops unlawfully denying citizens their GOD GIVEN RIGHTS that the Federal Government fails to uphold as their oath to the Constitution demands. In my estimation, that’s a little like shooting your murderous neighbor dead when he’s chasing his wife down the street with a knife.

  56. CD  February 2, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    When the Articles of Confederation were replaced by the Constitution, it was done so by dissolving one Union to create another. Ironically the Articles stated that the Union under them was perpetual, while the Constitution does not say that. It is not unconstitutional to seceed. As for your reference to Vermont having representation, you must understand that the “no taxation without representation” was just a propaganda slogan. The founders did not actually want representation, because 1 or even 13 votes would not change anything in Parliment. Furthermore many people living in England itself did not get to elect a representative. For more on that google the term “rotten borrows.” Nor did anyone else in the empire. No, it was simply a propaganda tool to be used on the masses. But boy was it effective.

  57. Paul Bonneau  February 2, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    Keep in mind that those who created the US Constitution seceded not only from England, but also from their own constitution in effect at that time, the Articles of Confederation. There is ample precedent for leaving, when staying becomes intolerable – particularly, when the US Govt itself tramples the Constitution every day, not staying within its charter. The US Constitution is not a prison, nor is it a contract binding on only one side.

  58. EatsAllTheFat  February 2, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    Oh, JackSpratt. I DO hope you come, personally, to confiscate my weapons. One less mindless soldier-drone is just what we need. And I will be more than happy to provide.

  59. paradox  February 2, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Its this kind of neocon imperial America mindset that really makes those on the left and we libertarians want secession. So it wasn’t ok for the founding fathers to seceded from Britain? In 1776 you would have been a loyalists traitor. Oh and just come and confiscate our firearms solider boy. MOLON LABE

  60. John Tatem  February 2, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Jackspratt, I will tell you what is traitorous. I President who declares war without first going through the congress to declare it. A congress and senate that passes 1000 page fascist bills without reading them. A government that taxes its people by printing more and more money through inflation. A government that takes control of private companies to prop them up. A government that gives trillions of our tax dollars to private banks because there are too big to fail. A president that has now given authority for Interpol to roam our country and work as an outside law enforcement. I could go on and on. I admire your patriotism, but you need to look at the big picture. Our representation is not listening to the people. These progressives are taking us down the path of socialism.

  61. joel  February 2, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    “The Union was worth destroying half the country for 150 years ago and the Union is no less worthy a goal now.”

    Why? Why does your desire for a union trump my desire for freedom? Do we force women who are in abusive relationships to stay married, just because they took a vow? (FYI, even the Bible makes provision for divorce.) Nothing like the Revolution, eh? England was taking about 2% of our wealth, while Washington takes 30+% (and state and local knocks that up to 50.) As for the so-called “representation”…I sure don’t feel represented. Washington is a rigged game. It’s just the facade of representation.

  62. John Wilson  February 2, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    This is exactly the military mentality that the founders of our republic despised, so you would expect anyone who loves their freedom to despise it as well. This is precisely the way our own nation under its power-hungry leadership, Russia, China, and many other super-oppressors justify widespread atrocities.

    Please, come to my front door first. It is not murder to defend your property against this sort of government-sponsored criminality. I find the “Live free or die” philosophy increasingly relevant. I would be happy to die for my freedom, to show you Facists controlling my government and my world what a lie you fight to propagate. When was the last time the American military fought for the freedom of Americans? A long time ago, in a country very different from ours today.

    You try to justify the deaths of the Civil War as somehow worthwhile? Please, go ahead and try, I am waiting. I have news for you. I would move from one state to another to avoid any connection with something as oppressive as slavery, but the Civil war wasn’t about slavery until it needed to cite a moral issue to cover the huge immorality of this huge atrocity, which you apparently support. Even Abraham Lincoln tried to provide compromise laws that would have protected slavery forever, to avoid the civil war, but he was as misguided as you that building monolithic states was worth any cost, let alone such a high one.

  63. John and Dagny Galt  February 2, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    Seems to us that folks have been seceding individually throughout history. Now that we have the instant ability to effectively communicate with every other Individual Sovereign Human Being on the planet this peaceful trend will rapidly accelerate.

    There are only two types of human beings

    One type just wants everyone to leave everyone else alone

    The other type refuses to do so while they still breathe

    Starving The Monkeys Continually And Forevermore,
    John and Dagny Galt
    Atlas Shrugged, Owners Manual For The Universe!(tm)


  64. jackspratt  February 2, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    As an Active duty soldier, I cannot abide this kind of traitorous talk. The Union was worth destroying half the country for 150 years ago and the Union is no less worthy a goal now. This is nothing like the Revolution: Vermont has full representation in the Congress and they vote. The United States isn’t just some club you can leave when you get upset with things. We are required to take an oath about defending the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and I think Vermont needs to think very carefully whether they are friends of the Constitution or potential enemies and the consequences of each case.

  65. Justitia  February 2, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    It wont happen. The people of the US are more interested in watching the SuperBowl and American Idol. They are all talk. Most those who are all gung ho about leaving the Union would tear themselves apart if they got their state to secede. Also, do you really think DC is just going to let these states leave? No way. Of the 4 major secessionist movements in American history only 1 came to fruition and ended after 4 years of war, 600000 dead, and years of rebuilding. The first two attempts were just threats and teh govt complied because they werent strong enough to really do much to stop the states from leaving. The third, SC, was threatend with invasion if they dared to nullify the federal tariff or try and secede. Dont get me wrong, I think secession is a great idea, but one has to think far in advance at the consequences, not in the here and now like most modern men.

  66. Andrew  February 2, 2010 at 6:24 am

    Simply a fool! We call people like you Neo-Americanists.

  67. Tom Dillman  February 2, 2010 at 6:06 am

    Hi Tom, yes, these 13% Vermont secessionists will happily stop killing foreign woman and children, but how do they feel about murdering living babies in a mothers womb? They are willing to fight a bloody war against helpless infants. It doesn’t take any danger for the murderers, just a little money and a sharp surgeons knife (or a cheaper bent coat hanger in a dark alley).

    Tom, you went to Mount St. Mary’s (RC) and I’m Jesuit trained. Our somewhat similar religious training says abortion is murder (except in rare cases). How do you place yourself in that picture?

    Many of us energy resource states are also contemplating secession, but not so they can murder babies at will. We are going to drill, baby, drill while you guys sit home freezing unless you burn coal or seperate yourselves from the the eco-nuts anti-nuclear stance. The bad news for anti-war and eco-nut movements is most of us energy guys are tougher than nails, not wimps.

    Tom, Vet, 1st Cav, Korean DMZ, Laos

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