Christians Desecrate Wiccan Religious Site at Air Force Academy

Evangelical Christians are at it again. The proselytizing only-through-Christ bunch have now taken up desecration of non-Christian religious sites: Not Jews this time but Wiccans. What the hell goes through the minds of these evangelicals who think they can tell other religions—at a military academy no less—what to believe? At their core, evangelicals who despise pluralism are infantile.

Update: In celebration of holy Super Bowl Sunday, I want to urge readers to check out the new book, Onward Christian Athletes by Tom Krattenmaker. Not for Jews, Wiccans, Muslims, Football-Only-though-Christ. This is a critical book and Krattenmaker is brilliant. –

The opening of the worship area at the Colorado Springs academy had been hailed as a step for religious tolerance
By DeeDee Correll—Reporting from Denver – The Air Force Academy, stung several years ago by accusations of Christian bias, has built a new outdoor worship area for pagans and other practitioners of Earth-based religions.

But its opening, heralded as a sign of a more tolerant religious climate at the academy in Colorado Springs, Colo., was marred by the discovery two weeks ago of a large wooden cross placed there.

‘We’ve been making great progress at the Air Force Academy. This is clearly a setback,’ said Mikey Weinstein, a 1977 graduate of the academy. He is founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, and has often tangled with the academy over such issues.

Although he credits the academy’s superintendent, Air Force Lt. Gen. Michael Gould, with an improved climate of religious tolerance, Weinstein criticized other academy officials as trivializing the incident, which he said was not revealed to cadets.

Rhetorically addressing academy officials, Weinstein said Tuesday, ‘It’s been two weeks — were you going to get around to telling them about this horrible thing that happened, and why haven’t you?’

Academy spokesman John Van Winkle said officials reported the situation to those on base and issued a message reiterating the school’s policy of religious tolerance and respect.

In a statement, Gould said, ‘We absolutely will not stand for this type of destructive behavior. I consider this no different than someone writing graffiti on the Cadet Chapel.’ In 2004, an academy survey found that many cadets felt that evangelical Christians were imposing their views and harassing non-Christians at the school.

The following year, an Air Force task force determined that there was no overt discrimination but the academy had failed to accommodate the religious needs of some cadets. Since then, the academy has worked to change that, Van Winkle said.

“It boils down to the key issue of respect — respect for everyone’s right to practice their faith as they choose,’ he said.

Specific steps include the creation of a Cadet Interfaith Council that identifies upcoming religious holidays and helps adjust cadets’ schedules to observe them.

The academy — which also has worship areas for Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Buddhist and Jewish faiths — already had a designated area for Wiccans, pagans and followers of similar traditions, but it was located on the north end of the 19,000-acre campus and was not easy for cadets to visit, Van Winkle said.

The new site, a collection of stones set in a circle unveiled late last year, is closer to where cadets live and train.

Modern Wicca is a reconstruction of ancient European pagan religions and is based on respect for Earth, nature and the seasons. On the weekend of Jan. 17, Weinstein said a client of his organization who is based at the academy spotted a cross, constructed of railroad ties, propped against a rock at the center. The client reported it, and the Office of Special Investigations began an inquiry.

The dean of faculty, Brig. Gen. Dana Born, discussed the incident at a Jan. 27 staff meeting, Weinstein said.

Weinstein did not attend the meeting but said that faculty members who did described the official reaction as tepid.

One faculty member, who attended and asked not to be named because of the sensitivity of the matter, supported Weinstein’s characterization of the meeting.

The reaction would have been stronger, Weinstein said, if another worship center had been involved. Had a swastika been placed in the Jewish center, ‘heads would be rolling,’ he said.Van Winkle said he saw video of Born’s address: ‘She downplayed nothing. She addressed the expectations, the issue and moved on.’

The views expressed herein are the views of the author exclusively and not necessarily the views of VT, VT authors, affiliates, advertisers, sponsors, partners, technicians, or the Veterans Today Network and its assigns. LEGAL NOTICE - COMMENT POLICY

Posted by on February 3, 2010, With Reads Filed under Government. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

300 Responses to "Christians Desecrate Wiccan Religious Site at Air Force Academy"

  1. jessica  June 10, 2010 at 9:37 pm

    there not all girls ((smiles )) but i am a woman and i dont use a Ouija board and i wont grow out of the wiccan rede or my pagan beliefs but talking with my father in his christian church is some times pleasant but uncomfortable .,

  2. jessica  June 10, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    charlie not all wiccans pagans or christians are emo emo is a state of mind that happens mostly with teenagers i have noticed where they get popular by crying and cutting there wrists and emos vary in having all kinds of religions . (( no offense intended i am speaking on what i have seen )) hopefully they will survive long enough to grow outta the crying and cutting .

  3. Kali  April 30, 2010 at 2:57 am

    Sorry, this post made me laugh. Why? Well, because all the statements regarding the micro-chip, one world order, blah blah blah, is all based on a FICTIONAL Christian series regarding the Rapture. Allow me to reiterate: Fiction. A set of books based on the authors’ interpretations of a book in the Bible, written by a man who, according to the Bible was INTERPRETING what his God told him. Come now. If you’re going to argue religion, please do so with facts and a rational argument, rather than paranoid mumbo-jumbo. Appreciate the chuckle, however, Rthorne.

  4. Kali  April 30, 2010 at 2:53 am

    This one’s for all the Christian’s out there who think it’s acceptable to attack another’s beliefs. It is not your job nor your right to judge another’s beliefs. If yours is the “right” path, we’ll find that out. But your own Bible declares that we have the right to free will. So is it not counter-productive to then judge us “sinners” or “wrong?” For the record, before making the decision to become Wiccan, I studied all major religions in depth, with a great deal of time spent on Christianity, and have read your Bible four times through. I’m more than happy to post other passages that support my statements just as well. Your God has told you that he and he alone is to judge man. Not you. So leave us in peace, we’ve never in the history of humanity attacked you.

    1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
    2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mk. 4.24
    3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
    4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
    5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
    6 ¶ Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

  5. Bob Higgins  March 7, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    Warning: Tone down your prose and make your point with less vitriol and personal attacks or you may be marked as spam.

  6. Strider  March 7, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Srroy reverend.

    Your pissant religion is as fake as any other monotheistc religion that was spawnwed out in the desrt somewhere.

    You just proved one thing:

    Yiou are NOT for freedom of religion.

    You are nothing but a theocratic fascisrt eho have a preverted wish to impsoe your religion onto others, and feel suppressed when you can’t lynch witc hes, gays, atheists and heretics anymore.

    *you are a bloody discrace, a parasite and an embarrasement to humanity.

  7. Jimmy  March 1, 2010 at 7:14 am

    Christianity can be such a hateful religion at times. I’m glad it’s losing adherents in the western world.

  8. brian N  February 23, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    not Satanism, but it is Satan controlling there minds.

  9. brian N  February 23, 2010 at 9:11 pm

    Wicca is not of God and is not pleasing to the Lord, so therefore Cheyenne, Wicaa is all about Satan.

  10. MaxineB  February 23, 2010 at 8:31 pm

    Guess you’ll be losing that “Keep Christ in Christmas” thingee?

  11. MaxineB  February 23, 2010 at 8:28 pm


    allow? How about mind your own business?

  12. Hapqy  February 19, 2010 at 8:00 am

    You can thank Dante for that.

  13. Hapqy  February 19, 2010 at 7:54 am

    “God’s Army for God’s nation”.


    “Article 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”
    Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary, 1797.

    No longer active, but by Article VI of the Constitution of the United States it does represent the official position of the U.S. Government and was legally binding during the time when that government still consisted largely of the Founding Fathers.

  14. b.g.  February 17, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    Tom Dillhole: Time to take your medication.

  15. b.g.  February 17, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    “I’d flatten your frigging nose. Then I’d drag your sorry ass behind my pickup to meet my son.” Yeah, FEEL that xtian LOVE.

    If the apple didn’t fall far from the tree, your son probably IS another annoying xtian jerk.

  16. b.g.  February 17, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    What a surprise that a fundie idjit would spout gender-essentialist, anti-choice garbage. Here’s a thought for you: Ain’t nothin’ gettin’ out of my uterus alive. I reject your idea that I have some sort of “role” that I’m duty-bound to play.

    Oh, by the way, contraception fails from time to time. And some men refuse to wear condoms, even though condoms do much less harm to their bodies than hormonal birth control does to women’s. Finally, it’s a fetus or an embryo, not a baby.

  17. b.g.  February 17, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    The Wiccans “imposed their viewpoints.” So I guess the chapel at the AFA had nothing to do with xtians imposing their viewpoints.

    Poor iddle xtians, so persecuted. Must be tough, not only being the majority but having disproportionate power in our political system.

  18. b.g.  February 17, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    [looks at your page]

    Oh. A teabagging wingnut. Never mind; it’d be like arguing with a developmentally delayed five-year-old.

  19. b.g.  February 17, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    I’m sorry that you feel you have to make up an imaginary friend in order to have a “real” purpose for living. A purpose is attainable in friends, relatives, meaningful work, hobbies, and helping the less fortunate.

  20. b.g.  February 17, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    LOL, I think xtians do a good-enough job of “smearing” their own names, considering all the intolerant crap they do.+

  21. Affected One  February 14, 2010 at 4:01 am

    I rather like the DADT solution to all the religious nonsense. Once upon a time, in America, religion was a private matter between a person and his god/goddess/gods/self/etc. Adults had been reared to respect that privacy, not getting up in anyone else’s face to discuss religion — at least, not outside of church, and since that suggested the person approached shared same or similar beliefs, it was no problem. Oh, for a return to the days of respect.

    Sadly, my own former commander convinced a committee inside the Pentagon to require superiors to ask about the “spirituality” and, of course, related practices, of those beneath them, during their annual pre-evaluation interviews. Clearly, this was intended to affect the ratings and furture inside the military, for those being so questioned.

    And this was an Air Force commander.

  22. goddamnathiest Rick  February 12, 2010 at 7:25 am

    Back around 2001 the same thing happened at Ft. Hood. The Wiccan’s had their place vandalized too. But the III Corp Commander put an MP out there. He wasn’t going to put up with anything like that.
    Later, a Republican Congressmen came down to protest, get some PR and so on. Funny thing, there were more anti-protesters then there were protesters. Not the welcome the Congressmen was expecting.
    That should get some press too. It did back then, but I think it should be brought up.

  23. mrg  February 12, 2010 at 1:06 am

    mike weinstein is my kind if man and my kind of american.i hate religion because just like politics you have a certain amount of dipshit racist assholes that use religion to hide their rightous hate.religion should come with a warning label like drugs because it is the opiate for the masses!to much and weak minds od!sgt mjr you’re no differnt than a islamic rebel.

  24. bob taylor  February 11, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    I agree..thats what I was taught and believe..
    I really do hate the stuff it down my throat attitude so much of Evangelical christans practice..that if we see a differnt side of sprititialism they are all frothing at the mouth to us..
    The tennets of the message is what we are all about..

  25. revwicca  February 11, 2010 at 12:05 am

    why do so many people hate religious other thing wiccans don’t believe in the christian worldview, so the means they don’t believe in satan.
    wiccans are not going anywhere, i mlike to see the christians try to stop wicca worship. you can’t so get over it. goddess bless the US constitution!

  26. SPC Brian  February 10, 2010 at 7:48 pm

    woah what that was probably the idiotic statement in this entire forum look here guy im pagan Wiccan actually and buddy i was a combat medic in the army attached to a cavalry unit and for you to say that if i were christian i could have done a better job at saving lives is the stupidest thing i have ever heard i only lost one soldier in a 14 month tour of iraq and he swallowed the barrel of his weapon. we do our part in the war despite being descriminated against

  27. AFA Grad  February 10, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    The railroad ties were actually there at the site already. Someone just fashioned them into a cross.

  28. Amnon Shadow Walker  February 10, 2010 at 2:54 am

    And while we are burning all of this metaphorical powder on this event, I would like to share a comment to help put this into perspective.

    As a fellow pagan friend of mine commented to me after his return from the sand box;
    After spending time in a *real* fundamentalist country, the Christians we have here are not a real big problem.

    And he went on to point out that the Christianity practiced in America today bears little resemblance to the “Convert or Die” Christianity of the 12th century crusades.

    I mean it has been, what, 300 years since we’ve had a burning at the stake here and just *ages* since the Christians have cut someone’s head off.

    Christians, like any other grouping of humans you could name, will have some real winners and some true a-hole rejects.

    I’ve met pagans and atheists and others who fit the same categories.

    Yep, some igits pooped in someone else’s sacred space.

    This is a problem for us because

    1) It happened at one of our academies
    2) As veterans, we are the type of folks who get very p*ssed off by this kind of thing. It is the sort of thing we generally fight against.

    But there is no reason to paint all of any group from the igits that do something stupid like this. Especially when it is something this minor in the long term scheme of things.


  29. Amnon Shadow Walker  February 10, 2010 at 2:40 am

    I swear, some times I think they expect me to burst in to flame when I step into a church.

    and I stopped smoking years ago 😎

    Yes, some of the stuff in the old cathedrals is just *great!*

  30. Name (required)  February 10, 2010 at 2:11 am

    who cares about the wiccans? seriously, they are just a bunch of girls playing with a ouija board. they’ll grow out of it eventually, just ignore them.

  31. Karl  February 9, 2010 at 11:50 pm

    I’m a disabled veteran of the war in Iraq. I am a Christian. I am appalled. Disgusted. Don’t you geniuses see? Desecrating that Pagan symbol was EXACTLY against everything we swear to “support and defend” when we enlist in the first place. I may not agree with a man, but I’ll put my ass on the line to defend his freedom to be different from me. (Snd shame on you, Sergeant Major, if you really are one, for not seeing that. You’re supposed to be a LEADER.)
    When the Apostle Paul encountered a Pagan temple, he didn’t destroy anything, didn’t preach against anyone, didn’t take an “us against them” approach at all. What he DID do was look around and find some common ground- in this case, the shrine “to the unknown god,” and started his discourse from there.
    I don’t know about you, but I certainly wouldn’t compare myself or anyone I’ve met to the apostle Paul as far as spreading the Word goes… and if someone thinks doing something this stupid is doing anything but pushing people AWAY from the cross of Christ, they’re a complete fool.
    This is a bad thing- for America, the Service, and Christianity.
    whoever did this is a coward… too much of one to walk in like Paul and make a difference in person. And a fraud.
    And shame on his/her supporters in the name of Jesus Christ and the Constitution of the United States of America we all swore to defend.

  32. WHood  February 9, 2010 at 9:22 pm

    By your logic blacks who find a burning cross in their yard should just put the fire out and get rid of the cross. Jews who find swastikas spray-painted on their synagogue should just paint over them and get over it. The fact is that crosses do not inherently “desecrate” another religion’s place of worship, it is the INTENT. This was not some innocuous act, the intent was to send a message that says, “we are the dominant faith and intend to stay that way, we have been getting rid of people like you for over a millenia and we will continue to do so.” That isn’t something to simply be scoffed at by the people it is directed at, and that may be your problem: it isn’t directed at you so you are inclined to minimize the situation and laugh it off. If that’s your view then why do you bother to even comment? It doesn’t matter to you so go about your business then.

  33. charlies  February 9, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    I agree that the military has a job to do, but obviously ‘wiccans’ are not going to be able to perform that job as well as others.

  34. Michael Leon  February 9, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    One thing this Air Force Christian scandal demonstrates is there are a lot of humanistic people in America loosely described as Wiccan who are the Sarah Palin-Neocons-Books-are-for-Satan’s crowd’s worst nightmare, and my heroes.

    As Pat Robertson’s famously imparted wisdom reveals of these freedom fighters: “[T]he [now-defunct Christian Coalition] letter said, ‘it is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.'”

    Thank you for your inspiring work.

  35. Grindstone  February 9, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    What about all the Churches being burned in Texas…….. [What about them? They’re not on a Military Academy, which is what this is about]
    What’s SATAN doing in the military anyway? [First, Paganism isn’t Satanism (Worship of Earth vs worship of self). Second, Satan is a being existing only in certain religions]
    We’ll find out what a big mouth you have when America crumbles from Obama economics. [While I don’t like his economics, we have a long way to go before we ‘crumble’.]
    We’ll see how you like wearing a brand new MICRO-CHIP…….,when the ONE WORLD ORDER is declared…[Oooh, boy. And now we’re in tin-foil hat town. I suppose you think Bush was behidn 9/11 too?]
    If you don’t have anything logical to say…..,THEN SHUT UP……….[Tkae your own advise]

  36. Rafael DeJesus  February 9, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    And again the Evangelicals neo-Theo’s can espouse fear and paranoia! By questioning Satans’ presence in the media are you suggesting that God has a place in the military? Is our military, Gods’ military? No! More people have been killed as a result of religious wars than all other wars combined. I support the academy’s drive for religious tolerance. That is what we need more of … instead of the right and left extreme positions!

  37. lionflower  February 9, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    You all seem to be forgetting that this is the United States of America. Still. And that religious freedom is everyone’s right, whether you agree with that religion or not. And, the military of the United States respects and honors that. … for the most part.

    I served for six years as enlisted in the U S Air Force. I was a damn fine aircraft mechanic and earned the respect of my peers. It’s no aircraft carrier, but the flightline can be a dangerous place to work. We all watched out for each other. We ate together, sweated together, swapped stories about spouses, deployed together, and relied on each other to keep each other safe.

    Oh, yes, and I had Wicca on my dog tags. And do you know what? The Evangelicals I worked with watched my back just as closely as the Atheists did. And do you know what else? I watched their backs, too, and kept them safe.

    Let’s not lose sight of what’s really important. The military has a job to do.

  38. Sc00baEve  February 9, 2010 at 6:09 am

    I love how everyone has to preface their comment with a statement like “As a pastor of 55 years” or “as a vet with enough shiny metal decorations to make Kanye West jealous”. You know what those opening statements say about you? They say that you are speaking from a point of view that you will never ever consider looking beyond. You are announcing to us that you are indoctrinated. It’s so thoughtful of you all to warn us that your thoughts and opinions on the matter mean absolutely nothing to the portion of the population capable of exercising simple common sense. For crying out loud… a makeshift wooden cross was found leaning in a rock circle. How does that equate to bigotry and religious intolerance? Was the cross burning? Was there some kind of heathen hit list nailed onto it? Was it cut from one of the trees that they worshiped? If the cross was really that disturbing, why didn’t one of the pagans simply move it away from their place of worship… perhaps do the neighborly thing and give it to one of the rabid evangelicals? As much as I dislike organized religion, I really don’t want to see the men and women charged with defending everyone’s right to believe what they want destroy each other with their absurd dogma and rhetoric. All of this bother… when the solution is SO simple. In the end, the easiest and most effective way for the US armed forces to deal with such polarizing lifestyles and beliefs as religion and worship… “don’t ask; don’t tell”. It will help lead to better unit cohesion and make it that much easier for the men and women fighting side by side for America can trust and depend on their fellow soldiers.

  39. btaylor  February 9, 2010 at 3:18 am

    I am FOR Freedom of people.
    I dont disrespect Wiccan,
    I support their right to practice in this country..
    and I said ( the Religious Right maybe a part of this) but possibly just a awful Prank..
    If it was the Christians they have been nazified..and their hate for anything not exactly like them may become an issue to all of us..

  40. charlies  February 9, 2010 at 1:21 am

    I think the emo wiccans did it to draw attention to themselves

  41. Ron Schaefer Lt Col USAF (Ret)  February 9, 2010 at 12:13 am

    Evangelizing and proselytizing is only appropriate when a person asks the porveyor for it–to hear that person word voluntarily. To believe one’s religion is truly the “one way” and therefore superior to all others is the highest form of hubris. Military people support and defend the constitution of the United States of Amercia and are therefore completely entitled to practice the religion of their choice or no religion at all. Who knows the truth about God…please, let no one have the audacity to point to a book written by arabs and romans pontificating on their ideas about the new truth as “truth”.

  42. Rose  February 7, 2010 at 11:56 pm

    Well put. I call myself a Pagan, not a Wiccan. Though most of the literature I have been able to read does focus on Wicca, Paganism is also a form of Earth-centered belief. With all belief systems out there, there are many sects/groups/what call you that have their own views on how the belief system should be followed… All Earth-centered faiths would have/could have been using this circle for their own versions of what ever rites they wished to perform there…

  43. Rose  February 7, 2010 at 11:49 pm

    My soul, my life, my body, my mind! I was raised “Christian” and chose to follow other. I don’t preach at you, so don’t preach at me. Let us all make our own choices because they are ours to make. I think somewhere in the Old Testament (parts of which are based on the Jewish Torah), doesn’t God give humans the power of free will or choice?

  44. Rose  February 7, 2010 at 11:40 pm

    A book called “Wiccan Beliefs and Practices” written by Gary Cantrell:

    The religion of Wicca, the Old Religion, is a loving and peaceful Pagan religion of nature or Earth worship… Wicca is a peace-loving religion that exemplifies joy and harmony with all the manifestations of nature.

    Cantrell continues, saying that Wicca has nothing to do with Satan, devil worship, black masses, bestiality, animal or human sacrifice, idol worship or black magic.

  45. Rose  February 7, 2010 at 11:37 pm

    Really, you want to mess with someone who screams about their way and only their way… Go on a little tour of some of the oldest “Christian” churches in Europe… And try to count all the various bits of Pagan Iconography that was included AT THE TIME OF THE CHURCHES’ CONSTRUCTION! I find that all rather amusing… Especially when people ask me if I would be OK entering a church because I might find it uncomfortable, or especially the time someone actually watched me walk into a church as if that person expected me to be smote by lightening! ROFL!

  46. Rose  February 7, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    I groc most of that… I don’t agree with all of it, but yes, very well written.

  47. Rose  February 7, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    Love it!!! Very well written Darach!

    Blessed be!

  48. Rose  February 7, 2010 at 10:57 pm

    Here, Here!!!

    Sorry for my quasi-goofs up above… Somewhere running around I have a copy of a law signed by Thomas Jefferson, I believe during his service as Governor of the Commonwealth of Virginia, that says the General Assembly shall make no law infringing on the beliefs of the residents of the Commonwealth… I shall have to find it again and write it in here… But it is fitting considering the content of many of the message here…

  49. Derwin  February 7, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    These weren’t Christians. Unfortunately, there have atrocities committe under the guise of Christianity, does anyone recall the Crusades? That refuse to convert…then die”, mentality still exsists today. The problem with the Crusades was simply you can’t share the Love of Christ through force. Now that doesn’t mean you can’t pack a sharp sword to defend.

    In a nutshell, standing in a garage and calling yourself a Rolls Royce doesn’t make you a car. Neither does standing in a Church and calling yourself a Christian make you one. Christianity is about imulating he Love of Christ because of your Love of him.

  50. Derwin  February 7, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    As a Christian (Evangelical), I find that this is not behavior that is representative of Jesus Christ, or his teachings. It is difficult to understand how a “Evangelical Christian”, if that is who committed this act, could think that these actions would lead anyone to Christ.

    As Chrstians, we are to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ not convert, and the best way to begin that is demonstrating his teachings by the way we live.

  51. nate  February 6, 2010 at 10:00 pm

    one world has been here for years. they just didn’t tell you XD

  52. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 9:47 pm

    Oooh… that was nasty! The dawn of dying era. tsk. tsk.

  53. Brandon Longcrier  February 6, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    I do wish that everyone could call this what the original story called it. It’s an Earth-Centered worship cirlce, not a Wiccan worship circle. Wicca is a tradition (or denomination if you will) that falls under Earth-Centered / Pagan spirituality, but everyone just assumes to call it a Wiccan circle. I can tell you that as of today, we don’t even have any “Wiccans” in our group. I just wanted to put this out there so people would know because calling our circle a Wiccan circle is like calling the Christian Chapel a “Baptist” Chapel. And by doing so, you leave out numerous traditions / denominations.

  54. Another Pagan Madra  February 6, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    We could use some snakes. If they would be so kind as to lend us some, Id be more than happy to put their shed skins to use, get us another form of change. (no snakes were harmed in the invoking of this change ^_^)

  55. Mr Cotton  February 6, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    Because Satanism is the worship of oneself and/or the ego, whilst Wicca is the worship of nature, it’s as simple as that, they gave nothing in common.

    Their teachings differ vastly, their values go apart and their lifestyles could barely be more different.

  56. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 7:11 am

    To fill in your erudite mind, the Aramaic (Christ’s language) word for “small, fish shaped loaves of bread was translated by the Greeks into fish.

  57. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 7:07 am

    tman, tman, tman. Maybe some of the trash coming out of your mouth is accurate, maybe some isn’t. But to beg for another Hitler? Or Stalin? Or Mao? Or Uncle Ho? Or any like them? I don’t thinks so. That isn’t what we fought for. Take your meds before you go to bed!

    Tom, Vet in Houston.

  58. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 7:02 am

    And you are acting like the droppings from a jackass. Grow up.

  59. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 7:01 am

    Good answer, Chuck.

  60. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 6:58 am

    thank you sir. Well said.

  61. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 6:57 am

    He is for you. What a waste of your life, the only real purpose for living. Sorry.

  62. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 6:55 am

    Hey DieHard. After all the preceding drivel, that was pretty well said. Keep writing man.

  63. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 6:50 am

    Dawn, Dawn, Dawn. Well said except for the womb issue. Once a viable baby is in there, it more that just a place in your body. It is a HOME for a viable life form, another human being. From a spiritual standpoint, to destroy its vitality, its lifeforce, its future, is MURDER. I understand there can be exceptions. But they are few and far between. The female has a special place in this lower creation. Contraception is the better answer whenever possible.

    I consciously put my body in harms way with devasting results so that other Americans would have the right to make common sense decisions.

    Tom D. Disabled Veteran, Jesuit trained, non-denominational,Electrical Engineer, Physicist, Mathematician, MBA, Practicing Mahatma.

  64. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 6:38 am

    Good point Wolfsbane. But, it was easier and cheaper for the Islamic Terrorists to start religious turmoil.

  65. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 6:36 am

    Thank you American Dad Paul. You can’t argue with idiots.

  66. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 6:34 am

    You are the idiot. I’m surprised you can spell.

  67. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 6:32 am

    So the “left-wing’s” professed religion of murdering millions of babies in the womb not hypocrisy? Don’t talk about hypocrisy unless you own up to your own.

    Tom the Vet from Houston.

  68. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 6:27 am

    Chris — I need to be a little more clear. I could care less if you are gay. That’s your business. But to use American Dad’s “hatred” as you call it, as an excuse not to be willing to defend your right to be and do what you wish as an American (as long as it doesn’t hurt others) is the statement of a coward. Again, in America you have the right to be a coward. I spent three hospital tours (ouch!) and 50 years of intense pain so you’d have that right. And so my son would have the right to worship God as an evangelical minister if he chose. And so that my grandchildren would have a free America to live in. Look in the mirror. Are you a coward or not?
    Only you can answer that with honesty. Keep writing, keep learning — but do it with self honesty, not using other peoples’ politically motivated B.S.

    Tom Army Vet, 1st Cav, Houston, Texas

  69. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 5:35 am

    Your statement is terrorism of the jerks.

  70. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 5:32 am

    Right Chris — you want us real Americans to protect your flimsy asses. Well, we ain’t doing it anymore.

  71. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 5:29 am

    Michael, does that include closet haters like you?

  72. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 5:28 am

    I though I might add, my son is an Evangelical Christian Minister. I know him well, he doesn’t have an evil bone in his body. I really f—g resent you calling him evil. If you were within driving distance of Houston, Texas, I’d flatten your frigging nose. Then I’d drag your sorry ass behind my pickup to meet my son. Clearly you and your ilk piss me off, jerk. I hope you read this — if you have enough intelligence.

  73. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 5:20 am

    And Bruce, how do you stop the harrassment of Christians? While you are cogitating on that, look up the term agnostic. I think it fits better for you.

  74. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 5:17 am

    Geez, a real brain speaking. Alright!

  75. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 5:15 am

    Hey Dawn, how else to you plant a tree. Crosses are made out of wood. Stick it in the ground and it might grow!

  76. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 5:13 am

    Do you even know what the earth, nature and seasons are? Oh yeah, you are probably one of those eco-nut, global warming freaks who are now freezing in the worst winter in decades. You guys know it all. 🙁

  77. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 5:09 am

    If the cat is hanging out with you and the blabber that comes out of your brain?, it must be stupid.

  78. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 5:07 am

    Xspook, you are a nutcase. The only xspook around you is Casper the Ghost.

  79. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 5:04 am

    Wow! Thank you for saying what you think, American Dad. That’s the beauty of America and I applaud you. On the other hand, 🙂

  80. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 4:58 am

    Okay, I admit it Michael. We Vets on VATODAY are a bunch of crazy shits. I guess that’s why I enjoy you guys and and your whacked out ideas. All of us older Vet coots with TBIs, PTSDs, missing arms and legs, bullet holes and terrible experiences many of the respondees have no idea about and can’t understand the strange twists in our thinking processes. We like to call it wisdom, eh?

    Tom, the Houston Vet

  81. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 4:47 am

    You laughed so hard you urped up that witch leg, huh? You know? I haven’t eaten a decent human leg since I was pulled out of Uncle Ho’s Trail. Damn, great memories.

  82. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 4:44 am

    Sheeez…. a helluva time to be a vegetarian! Tom

  83. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 4:41 am

    Consider looking up “karma” and “reincarnation”. Even better yet, study those theories.

  84. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 4:37 am

    While you are at it, change the James S. to j.s. It’ll make you feel better for sticking your nose in other peoples’ religious business.

  85. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 4:34 am

    Damn O, That was funny! Tom

  86. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 4:34 am

    SgtMajor, You’re my kind of guy. Timpgod presents himself as an intellectual dipshit. I apologize for him insulting you. He needs to look in a mirror, though he probably doesn’t own one.

    Tom Dillman, Disabled Vet, Korean DMZ, Uncle Ho’s Trail, American Patriot family since 1605.

  87. Tom Dillman  February 6, 2010 at 4:24 am

    How do you know Cheyenne?

  88. Oldleatherneck  February 6, 2010 at 4:15 am

    I consider myself an evangelical Christian. However worship and believe in who ever and what ever you choose, its your right of free choice. Just leave me alone to follow my spiritual belief, and don’t try to elevate your belief system above mine. I’ll pray for your eternal soul if you want me to or not. You will be held accountable for you choices, as will I.

  89. SgtMaj  February 6, 2010 at 2:39 am

    Wow, did you ever leave the scouts? I served three tours in Nam, a Silver star, and two Bronze stars plus 27 other medals and ribbons including one of the few in my unit as an enlisted man to receive the Legion of Merit. I also served in the Gulf. You must have never met a real Sgt Major. I also have a MA in Military history.

  90. Rev. Bruce Richards  February 6, 2010 at 1:32 am

    This seems to be a wonderful example of what I was talking about.
    Thanks for the demonstration.

  91. whip1933  February 6, 2010 at 1:10 am


  92. Timpgod  February 6, 2010 at 1:00 am

    A real Sergeant Major would never agree to something as stupid as rthorne’s comment.

  93. Darach  February 6, 2010 at 12:44 am

    Oh, and by the way it’s the second commandment. Neglected to mention that before.

  94. Bob Taylor  February 5, 2010 at 11:26 pm

    Has anyone considered this just might have been a (lousy) joke pulled off by students or others? These things have happened in the past…NO justification but certainly less than a real big threat…

    I’ve heard reports of some intense (rabid?) Christianity at the Academy but has it become so intolerant as to be disassociated from the tenets of real Christian behavior.

    in case I’m mixed up on this ..where do they keep the snakes, in that pretty chapel?

  95. Rev. Bruce Richards  February 5, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    It’s truly a shame when ignorance, bigotry, and intolerance become the common law. If only we could find Christians that lived as Christ did. Christ and his apostles would speak and accept all people. They accepted Jews, Greeks, Romans and all other Pagans alike. It should be remembered that Christ did not grow up in a Christian society. Perhaps he was blessed by not having to put up with the arrogance.

  96. Larry  February 5, 2010 at 11:08 pm

    Are you serious? I mean wow, that has to be hands down one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard. So are you telling me USMC veteran that I’m wrong for my worship. Last I checked this country was founded on religious tolerance. For you to come out your face and say such a thing. I do so dearly hope you were never a marine for I would have to turn my back on you in shame.

  97. Cheyenne  February 5, 2010 at 10:51 pm

    Just wanted to point out that Wicca and Satan have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

  98. SgtMaj  February 5, 2010 at 10:50 pm

    There is a hell of alot of truth in rthorne’s statement unless you listen to MSNBC!

  99. Steve Druzynski  February 5, 2010 at 10:16 pm

    No need to fret, cause 2012 is just around the corner!
    AND: doesn’t this sound all to familiar? people fighting over what religions should be allowed in there back yard? Did we forget the more pressing issues like on CNN news where the president was telling the public how more companies are turning around and beginning to hire because of his plans, but he failed to read the news ticker they play during the news below the picture.It stated at the same time that the unemployment figures were higher than first thought and expected to climb higher due to more jobs being lost. Some body better call CNN and tell them that their news ticker is all WRONG!

  100. Lawrence A Dickerson  February 5, 2010 at 10:14 pm

    That many Christians believe that the End Times are upon us they seem to openly attack any religious view that differs from their own.Keep in mind fundamentalists,there are over 1500 faith groups in the US alone,each with their own interpretation of what is ,”True”.

    This country was founded on the freedom to worship freely as one chooses.These fringe groups are a danger to themselves and others by advocating violence and destruction of those sects,denominations and religions.

    Nobody is above the law of the land and those individuals that take the law into their own hands need to be punished to the maximum sentence allowable.

  101. James S  February 5, 2010 at 8:54 pm

    Change that ‘C’ to as tiny a ‘c’ as you can produce, these aren’t ‘christians’ no where near any religion, though they are rewriting the bible to fit them, again!

  102. James S  February 5, 2010 at 8:52 pm

    You should follow your last sentence as advice, it would help ya not look totally ridiculous, actually more!!

  103. Oksana  February 5, 2010 at 8:51 pm

    It’s time to pull out your tin foil hat because you are seriously delusional with your conspiracy theories…

  104. D  February 5, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    …What? Less than 1% of that statement has any truth to it.

  105. Oksana  February 5, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    Are you aware that the Christian fish came from the Pagans??? All of you Christians driving around with that fish are actually displaying a pre-Christian Pagan symbol. As you can see below, it was the CHRISTIANS who first “desecrated” and changed the PAGAN fish symbol for their own purposes.


    “The pre-Christian history of the fish symbol:

    The fish symbol has been used for millennia worldwide as a religious symbol associated with the Pagan Great Mother Goddess. It is the outline of her vulva. The fish symbol was often drawn by overlapping two very thin crescent moons. One represented the crescent shortly before the new moon; the other shortly after, when the moon is just visible. The Moon is the heavenly body that has long been associated with the Goddess, just as the sun is a symbol of the God.

    The link between the Goddess and fish was found in various areas of the ancient world:
    In China, Great Mother Kwan-yin often portrayed in the shape of a fish.

    In India, the Goddess Kali was called the “fish-eyed one”

    In Egypt, Isis was called the Great Fish of the Abyss

    In Greece the Greek word “delphos” meant both fish and womb. The word is derived from the location of the ancient Oracle at Delphi who worshipped the original fish goddess, Themis. The later fish Goddess, Aphrodite Salacia, was worshipped by her followers on her sacred day, Friday. They ate fish and engaging in orgies. From her name comes the English word “salacious” which means lustful or obscene. Also from her name comes the name of our fourth month, April. In later centuries, the Christian church adsorbed this tradition by requiring the faithful to eat fish on Friday – a tradition that was only recently abandoned.

    In ancient Rome Friday is called “dies veneris” or Day of Venus, the Pagan Goddess of Love.

    Throughout the Mediterranean, mystery religions used fish, wine and bread for their sacramental meal.

    In Scandinavia, the Great Goddess was named Freya; fish were eaten in her honor. The 6th day of the week was named “Friday” after her.

    In the Middle East, the Great Goddess of Ephesus was portrayed as a woman with a fish amulet over her genitals.

    The fish symbol:

    “… was so revered throughout the Roman empire that Christian authorities insisted on taking it over, with extensive revision of myths to deny its earlier female-genital meanings…Sometimes the Christ child was portrayed inside the vesica, which was superimposed on Mary’s belly and obviously represented her womb, just as in the ancient symbolism of the Goddess.” 4 Another author writes: “The fish headdress of the priests of Ea [a Sumero-Semitic God] later became the miter of the Christian bishops.” 5

    The symbol itself, the eating of fish on Friday and the association of the symbol with deity were all taken over by the early Church from Pagan sources. Only the sexual component was deleted.

  106. D  February 5, 2010 at 8:45 pm

    This is what I came here for.

  107. rthorne  February 5, 2010 at 8:31 pm

    What about all the Churches being burned in Texas……..
    What’s SATAN doing in the military anyway?
    We’ll find out what a big mouth you have when America crumbles from Obama economics.
    We’ll see how you like wearing a brand new MICRO-CHIP…….,when the ONE WORLD ORDER is declared…
    If you don’t have anything logical to say…..,THEN SHUT UP……….

  108. Oksana  February 5, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    Well said, Dawn!

  109. Oksana  February 5, 2010 at 8:15 pm

    Wow… Really American Dad?? Are you really this ignorant?? The reason it says “GOD” is because at the time of the founding of this country there were very few atheists. The reason “GOD” was used was because each religion, especially at that time, worshiped at least some aspect of a god (there weren’t any pastafarians or the like around at the founding of our country). The reason “GOD” was used was because it included ALL religions. If it was really meant to be a representation of this so-called Christian nation you have created in your own mind, why didn’t they use the word “Christ”?

    Maybe you should go back to school and refresh yourself on history so you cease to look like a complete moron.

  110. Ukulelemike  February 5, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    Why is it assumed it was evangelical Christians (which I am not)? They mention a Catholic worship area-and from the history of the Catholics, this would be much more their style. Evangelicals tend to be too lazy about their Christianity, and too far removed from any idea of separatism to do it. Also, has anyone considered the possibility of an ‘agent provocateur”, and inside job, to bring blame and anger on another group? Certainly, one of the techniques of wiccans and witches is to put people on the inside of churches and teach their doctrines to the children-but of course, no one would think to consider that a desecration of a church, would they? Now, if those wackos from the ‘god hates fags’ church were around, I wouldn’t put it past them, though they would cheerfully admit to it and stick around for the press to show up-but they are not, according to their fruit, Christians anyways.
    True Christians, like the founders of the country, believe in soul freedom, meaning that,even if we don’t like how another worships, they have that right-its a fundamental reason for the founding of this country. I’m an independent fundamental Baptist preacher, and I believe it. I may preach against error, but I believe in someone’s right to believe it. I may offer them the truth, but if they reject it, that is their prerogative.

  111. Oksana  February 5, 2010 at 7:26 pm

    Well, American Dad, seems you don’t know your history very well.

    It is not “God’s” (notice the apostrophe) army or “God’s” nation. Our founding fathers made that very clear, especially George Washington who started the writing of the Treaty of Tripoli, which was signed by Adams I believe (who, indeed, was a Christian… and HE didn’t have a problem with it). In case you are completely lost (which, judging by your above statement, you probably are), article 11 clearly states:

    “Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”

    If that isn’t a declaration of this NOT being “God’s” nation, I don’t know what is. Take your intolerant beliefs elsewhere.

  112. Sundog  February 5, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    I almost forgot–The Cadets should also have to apologize to Christians for smering their name in this mess as well. Because we all know, that regardless of the idealogues on the TEE VEE, that all Christians are certainly not like these assholes.

  113. Witchy Woman  February 5, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    Jpatt – you should look up WICCAN – your ignorance is astounding. Wiccans are NOT atheists. Athesist do not believe in God at all – Wiccans believe in GOD as well as GODDESSES, just not your Christian God. ALSO Wiccan has nothing to do with SATAN – that is a CHRISTIAN concept. Christianity is the baby on the timeline of religions. Think about the Greek and Roman mythology you learned in school – that was NOT mythology to them back then, it was RELIGION. Today’s religions are tomorrow’s mythologies. If you actually STUDIED religion you would already know that JESUS would NOT HAVE BEEN BORN in December – how many cattle and lamb flocks are in the fields in the dead of winter – uh…none, especially when it is zero degrees. The Romans picked dec 25th because it aligned with Saturnalia & Yule, both pagan holidays to conform people to Christianity. Also, as I am sure by your comments, a Christian – do you know why Easter – a holy day to Christians – changes every year? It is because Ostara – which sounds a lot like Easter doesn’t it – the PAGAN holiday celebrated on the 1st day of spring – changes by a few days. Easter is the 1st Sunday, after the 1st Full Moon after the 1st day of Spring. Doesn’t that sound a little WITCHY to you? Dying easter eggs was a fertility ritual WAY before PAAS starting selling kits and churches everywhere had easter egg hunts. Yule Logs? Easter Bunnies? All Saints Day? May Day celebrations complete with May Poles? Christmas Trees? Look up the origins of these things and you will see that you probably celebrate and honor more things based in Pagan traditions than you know. Freedom of relgion covers ALL religions, not just the one you believe in. If you want to look down upon someone else’s religious beliefs than move to Pakistan and blow up infidels for a living.

  114. C. Baize  February 5, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    I was thinking about using it as the … erm… centerpiece to a Freyr stead.
    A little shaping, mushroom head on the end, plant it upside down…
    Great big phallus for Freyr!

  115. R Matthias  February 5, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    After reading the article and many of the comments I have two questions; where does it say Evangelical Christians admit to the desecration, it seems to me the writer of the article made an ASSUMPTION only. Secondly to the respondennts; why are you so angry? If you don’t agree with Christianity, that is your perogative; I personally don’t like liver, but I don’t get angry over it. Seems to me the anger is a defense mechanism of some sort.

  116. Eeyoraus  February 5, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    I don’t believe in hell either but I make a mean taco cassorole! Let’s party!

  117. Go Navy  February 5, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Aren’t hate crimes felonies?

    At the least, this is a serious breach of good order and discipline (or is that not important at USAFA?)

  118. Ingvar  February 5, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    Yes.. it was Christians. I have a witch at home in the pressure cooker now. They taste just like chicken.

  119. Ingvar  February 5, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Right, it would have been ok for someone to have strapped a Buddha to the rock but certainly not a cross.

  120. matt  February 5, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    @Kels, it was Julius Ceasar himself, sir. Though apparently his account was repetition of claims made by others.

    It doesn’t seem like there’s evidence for or against people being burnt within Wicker Men. But it is a neat idea, makes for a good movie.

  121. littlepagangirl77  February 5, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    WOW… Thanks for that! I laughed so hard…

  122. littlepagangirl77  February 5, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    I don’t believe in hell, but I might just to make it to that party!

  123. Bob  February 5, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    It’s a good thing that every liberal in the country isn’t driving around with a desecrated Christian fish on the back of their cars with feet and the word Darwin added to it.

    Cause, you know, then they would be full of it when they called Christians names for doing the same thing they did.

    Only, not really, because these Christians didn’t desecrate the religious symbol of another religion.

    To do that takes an open minded, tolerant liberal.

  124. Kels  February 5, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    Wasn’t a lot of that “Celts set people on fire” Wicker Man stuff actually propaganda by one of the Ceasars to encourage the soldiers invading Ireland?

  125. tman  February 5, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    The primary purpose of the Naval Academy is to train young men and women for combat..and to do it better than the enemy.
    Houses of worship is where you go to worship whatever bullshit deity that you happen to believe in.
    The two should be separate…and Sundays should be the only day that is made available for worship..whether that fits with your religious time frames or not. Don’t like it and want to worship at other times? Then you can quit and go and follow a career in that religion.
    Notice that both of the individuals that don’t like the lack of religious diversity are both Jewish…The only have to see what they are doing to innocent men, women and children in Gaza to know that they should have no credibility and are they are the biggest racists in the world today. They have constructed a wall in the middle of Jerusalem to keep the Palestinians out..what other country in the world today could get away with that? I think that as time goes on, more and more people will understand why Adolph Hitler wanted to eliminate them all together..they have been hated by every nation that they have settled in in history. Why is that? No other race has been persecuted to that extent…I believe that it has to do with how they try to dominate and manipulate every society and this is a perfect example of why the smelly Jews are disliked..they really are a cancer to every society..hope that another Hitler comes along and finishes the job this time..scum of the earth

  126. Steve Leser  February 5, 2010 at 11:41 am

    Kirsten, please ignore the idiotic response you received.

    Marriage is indeed a right. It is one of those inalienable rights talked about when documents like the Constitution and Declaration of Independance muse about Life, Libert and the Pursuit of Happiness.

    It matters not in the abstract whether a given government recognizes the right or not, like the right of free speech, the right exists. Of course, just like the rights of free speech, press and assembly, if a government doesnt recognize it, people fight to have that changed.

    Even the US government, to a fashion, recognizes that marriage is a right and not a priviledge. How? Well, under what circumstances can a single heterosexual adult have the right to marry a single adult from the opposite sex taken away? There is no such circumstance. The US Government recognizes that it cannot and should not be taken away. That is not a priviledge, it is a right.

  127. elnigma  February 5, 2010 at 11:31 am

    If that’s what you want, I hope you get it, and same with everyone else who’d like it. I don’t understood the point of a place of permanent punishment after death. So lets say someone’s really evil and would deserve it – it is still close in concept to flogging a dead horse – it really doesn’t achieve a lot, and would be quite stupid.

  128. elnigma  February 5, 2010 at 11:07 am

    no additions, but seconding props for St. Francis.

  129. elnigma  February 5, 2010 at 11:00 am

    You got this story from the 700 club?

  130. elnigma  February 5, 2010 at 10:54 am

    I’m surprised if you hadn’t heard from people who would like to see gay marriage allowed in more states any shock and outrage. Even if someone’s religion opposes the rights and religions of another group, going into their services and spaces and trying to disrupt them is a violation on their rights to free religion and outrageous.

  131. Llozz  February 5, 2010 at 10:42 am

    So with your logic even if i went to heaven and say some of my closest family chose not to repent for whatever reason or another, i wouldn’t mourn their loss be sad that i will never see them again and be in the knowledge they’re in eternal suffering and torment. Yeah odly enough i don’t buy that shit for a second; just like your band of fictitious worshipping idiots can’t dictate what i will and will not believe in, your even more ludicous idea of heaven will not dictate my feelings towards this matter.

  132. elnigma  February 5, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Someone putting that cross there (and crosses can be pagan, too) was obviously intending to be insulting even if many pagans are fairly liberal about the presences of various deities in their space. Not every pagan is Wiccan and lives by the Wiccan Rede.

  133. kalimata  February 5, 2010 at 8:17 am

    This stuff is awesome, I love it when stuff like this happens. A cross at a circle of stones, beauty. This story just shows how stupid and ignorant most people are. As if a cross is going to anger a Witch, seriously. “Zealot group of idiots makes an arse of themselves.” That should have been the title of the article. I’ve been a Witch for 20 years now, and this stuff makes me laugh, it really does. I’ve gotten past the need to explain or justify my religion to anybody, I know where it’s from, I know it’s real. I agree with a post I read from someone who said that the Witches/Pagans should have it placed in there permanently, treat it as a gift. I mean what would piss off an idiot zealot more, seeing an object intended as an insult welcomed into the circle as a gift. Think of it, all them evil nasty witches dancing around the “Holy Cross”. Makes me laugh…

  134. Anon Y. Mous  February 5, 2010 at 8:10 am

    If heaven’s going to be full of self-righteous pricks like yourself who love stomping on everyone else’s rights and then whine like pathetic cowards when people stand up to them, then I would certainly like to go to hell.

  135. Annette  February 5, 2010 at 6:00 am

    Michael, you don’t understand about hell. If in heaven there will be no mourning, no death, no sadness, no sickness, no lies, no dishonesty, no stealing, no abuse, no betrayal, no violence, etc. only pure love–what do you think hell is? You don’t want to be there!!! Hell will be the ultimate in self-centered regret. No one will want to party!!! No warm fuzzies, no family, no friendship. Only misery. The party will be in heaven–and we won’t need weed or wine. We will be intoxicated with the beauty of getting rid of all that mars and scars the human race! Come join us! Jesus wants you there.

  136. Jon  February 5, 2010 at 5:53 am

    What can ya say. Christians are jackasses

  137. Darach  February 5, 2010 at 5:07 am

    “In God We Trust” first appeared on the 1864 two-cent piece, after some debate in Congress. Its appearance has not been continuous or consistent.

    “Under God” was not a part of the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954, after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus to have it added.

    The way the first commandment reads, the stars on my uniform and the statues of our founding fathers are offenses. The Lincoln memorial is a blasphemy. Let us tear it down, that your god may be appeased. The statue of Washington astride his horse is a sin. Let us melt it into shackles to bind those who do not believe as you do.

    You throw your Bible up in our faces and say it was written by God. Read Matthew’s account of the Nativity, then read Luke. They’re not even the same. Where is the Slaughter of the Innocents in Luke? Why did a bunch of men decide which books to include in the Bible and which would become the Apocrypha? The Bible says, “Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.” So why do we see plague and famine in the world? Why do children suffer and die? For every two Christians praying for a miracle, are there two praying just as hard for tragedy? There must be for God to be so stymied.

    You are welcome to your faith, but not your attitude toward others. You believe the Bible was written by God through men, but you cannot prove it. So why are you foaming at the mouth because others won’t simply take your word for it?

    May you one day find peace, but I cannot walk with you because you will not have me.

  138. Darach  February 5, 2010 at 4:22 am

    “Um… If you look up in many churches, you will find just that… The Church took the use of the Triskal to represent The Holy Trinity. For centuries prior, the same symbol was used to denote another trinity: Maiden, Mother Crone.”

    I believe that is the point that Maudite was making, that Christians adopted a great deal of ritual and symbolism from the existing pagan religion. Taking Cernunnos, the Horned God, and making him into the Devil wasn’t very nice, however. Prior to the rise of the Church in Europe, Satan was just a naughty angel- no horns, tail, or cloven hooves.

  139. R Brown  February 5, 2010 at 2:48 am

    Wait a minute, weren’t the supposed Christians the ones who set people who were Wiccans or simply “different” on fire?

  140. Robert W  February 5, 2010 at 2:45 am

    If your faith (Wiccan) preaches peace, etc. then why do you accuse Chritians for placing the cross there? Has any one actually found out who placed it there? For all we know, it was placed there by a Wiccan, Pagan, Buddahist or some other faith.

  141. Chuck Palazzo  February 5, 2010 at 12:54 am

    Politics and religion – never talk about them. At least that’s what I learned growing up. As a Marine Combat Vet, who was fed the big lie about our involvement in Vietnam, i have the right and the obligation to speak out – I fought (in theory at least) in part, to protect our constitution – isn’t freedom of choice, especially with religion and speech a big part of the basis of the US? Its a matter of choice – that’s what I advocate – and none are better than another – be it a religion, a race, or a political lively debate.

    Semper Peace! and good piece Mike!


  142. s1lverw0lf  February 5, 2010 at 12:38 am

    true, wiccans didn’t set people on fire… that was mostly a celtic/druid thing. but, following a bit of misguided logic, I can see where someone might think ‘druidic= pre-christian earth religion=pagan=wiccan=people BBQ’. incorrect, sure, but understandable.

  143. Denise  February 4, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    Would also make great firewood for the first ritual…

  144. Kon  February 4, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    Hear hear.

  145. Kon  February 4, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    This just goes to prove that religion causes all major conflicts. And if you yell at me because of that, it just furthers my point. This is coming from an avid atheist.

    And don’t try to yell at me. This is the first and only time I have ever come to this site. Nothing you say will ever get back to me.

  146. Links Der Rammstein  February 4, 2010 at 9:59 pm

    As a Christian, I have this message to the idiots that placed this. Did you know that Christ did indeed say that you should preach his gospel to the four corners of the earth but you missed the most important part and that is do NOT preach to ears who will not hear it.

    Seems simple enough.

    It’s their souls and they’ll figure out what they wanna do with them. They’re not hurting you, leave them alone.

  147. Kirsten  February 4, 2010 at 8:29 pm

    wow…. um…. dude, I seem to remember soemthing from my Sunday School lessons about Christ saying “The greatest commandment is this, that you love one another as I have loved you.” I may be wrong, but I thought that was what Christianity was all about…. am I wrong? Did I mis hear my sunday school teachers all those years ago? Its people like you that made me not want to be a part of ANY organized religion esp, Christianity. The hypocritical attitude I saw from them… drinking on saturday night coming out of the local topless bar, and then acting like good married Christians at church the next day. Are you one of those wow? Were you not taught properly in your christian education?

  148. §ãwÐùs†  February 4, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    See You in the Sessrúmnir, there’s No Hangovers There

  149. Kirsten  February 4, 2010 at 8:19 pm

    If marriage is not a right then what is it Pat? Please enlighten us, please I would love to hear your answer.

  150. Feit C Taj  February 4, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    “I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against all tyranny over the minds of man.”

    –Thomas Jefferson, talking about “Christian” nutjobs who wanted a “Christian” nation

  151. Nathaniel Wolfe  February 4, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    See, what the Christians were probably doing, all be it the wrong way to get their point across, was just adding the cross as an expression of freedom of worship. After all, wasn’t it an “Outdoor” worship area? Who says a Cross can’t be Pagan? After all, most if not all Christian holidays, symbols etc came from Pagan ceremonies and rites. Lets try preaching tolerance to ALL religions and not only when it’s convenient to a cause such as this one. I too am a practicing Pagan with Christian parents and family members. They would never know what a Wiccan Sanctuary looked like if they stepped into it, cause all the ones I use are natural and untouched by artificial signs or crafted symbols. Just 2 cents worth. “An it harm NONE, do as ye will”. Does the presence of the cross REALLY desecrate a sacred space? Doesn’t it lend to the fact that the space is truely “sacred to the God’s of old and in it the old ways live again?” Just a thought.

  152. Jpatt  February 4, 2010 at 7:43 pm

    Anti-Christian, liberal bias infects that academy. ‘Freedom of religion’ cry the atheists (Wiccans biggest defenders not surprisingly). America need not have ‘religious tolerance’ when it comes to satan’s work.

  153. Silenus  February 4, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    Hey, I like Granola…

  154. There is no god  February 4, 2010 at 6:00 pm

    God is imaginary.

  155. Wolfsbane  February 4, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    Another thing to consider is that if a bunch of morons can get away with sneaking a several hundred pounds of wooden cross into the academy, then why can’t Al Qaeda sneak several hundred pounds of explosives or biological/chemical weapons in just as easily?

    They had to have been a conspiracy from both the inside and the outside in order to accomplish this. Cadets or officers who did this have no place in the military.

  156. CaptDangledoo  February 4, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    This Navy veteran thinks American Dads brain is further proof of how degraded this nation has become. This Native American thinks any God who someone would pray to that has caused as much detruction as this christianity has caused is degrading humanity.

  157. Wolfsbane  February 4, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    Homosexuality was known as the Prussian vice. The Spartan warriors were teamed with a younger man who was his lover.

    Both the Prussians and Spartans were some of the greatest military cultures that this planet has ever produced. Whenever the whining homophobes start complaining about gays in the military they should be reminded that they’re lucky that gay sex between soldiers isn’t a requirement to create unit cohesiveness.

  158. Pikie  February 4, 2010 at 3:06 pm


  159. Pikie  February 4, 2010 at 3:02 pm


  160. Laurali  February 4, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Umm, Wiccans/witches didn’t set people on fire. It was women accused of being witches that were set on fire. Hundreds and thousands of them. By the church.

    Witches: not just for burning anymore.

  161. :D  February 4, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    I’m not sure that any of you who read this are getting it. Read the name again and think of where you’ve heard it before

  162. GetOverIt  February 4, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    Give this PC crap a rest will you. It is only because the wiccans imposed their viewpoints that a wiccan “sanctuary” was erected. Plus if wiccans worship the earth and what comes from it, look at the wooden cross as a peace offering, for it is the earth that provided it. Get Over It!!

  163. Pikie  February 4, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    I think “the devil” is an excuse for people who don’t want to admit their wrong doing.

  164. Pikie  February 4, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    Right on.

  165. Doug  February 4, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Don’t blame Che for all the little hippies??? He was a mass murderer!!!

  166. TheDieHard  February 4, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    Dumbya was one of the most frightening idiots EVER, right behind Ronnie Ray-gun. Anyone who voted for either of them is stupider than my eldest cat.

  167. TheDieHard  February 4, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    If it was railroad ties, it was more than one dimwit, and also not safe to burn. And no, we don’t use cauldrons any more. Iron is expensive.


  168. TheDieHard  February 4, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    “Under God” and “In God We Trust” were added by Joe McCarthy and his thugs. You have now identified yourself as an ignoramus as well as a psychotic.

  169. TheDieHard  February 4, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    It’s encouraging to see how few fundies are rattling around, and how many people are speaking up for the rights of others. However, a few basic points here….

    One, an outdoor circle at five thousand feet is probably not going to be used most days of the year, not even in wool robes, never mind sky-clad.

    Two, while it’s true that putting a swastika in a Jewish gathering place would be an outrage (though I’ll bet you a remaining space shuttle that you don’t know the origin of the swastika), putting a couple of railroad ties in a circle means pretty much nothing. They can always be used as benches.

    Though probably not for fires. If it had been untreated wood, it could have been used for roasting marshmallows or heating soup. (That’s what a pagan friend did when someone burned a cross in his yard.)

    Three, while it’s possible that some christo-fascist wackos did this with malicious intent, in which case they should be expelled, it’s equally possible that some drunks did it as a prank. Ghu knows that college kids will get drunk and do very odd things. At some colleges, it’s practically a requirement.

    Four, let’s get our priorities straight here. Shouldn’t we be worrying more about whether these kids are getting adequate adult supervision — in strategy and tactics and SURVIVING?

    And the major point: why should there be religious facilities, of ANY sort, at a military academy? Hello? What are weekends for? Give them a bus pass into the city to find the place of worship of their choice.

    Maybe a military base in a remote location should have a simple room set aside, where people can rotate through with their own candles and accoutrements, but give me a break on this “individual worship areas” nonsense.

    The “Interfaith council” may be a good idea, but it would be more properly addressed in a history class, along with the history of what ridiculous wars were fought, and for what idiotic reasons. Do kids today even know what the Spanish Inquisition was about, except from Monty Python?

    Our next generation needs to be EDUCATED. They’re inheriting a planet in which one lone nutcase can cause more problems than all the war-mongers of all of previous history combined.

    You can’t blame them for wanting to ask for help from a higher power, but as Heinlein said, do it in private and wash your hands afterward.

    Then get back to studying how to fix that widget when it breaks, because THAT’S what you’re betting your life on.

  170. Lese Majeste  February 4, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    You’ve obviously never tried to out-muscle a bull dyke in a bar where they were serving free vodka

    No I have never tried that and don’t plan on trying that, since I don’t need any free dental work performed in a bar.

  171. Lese Majeste  February 4, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    “You shall make no graven image or any likeness of anything in heaven or earth, nor bow down to any such thing.” This is derived from the first commandment and leaves no doubt about what God thinks of false idols. – Gods words not mine

    OOPS! Better get rid of all those statues of Jesus in churches, especailly the ones that show JC as having lily white skin.
    Since he was born in the ME 2,000 years ago, that means he was probably brown skinned and maybe even black!!

    And better get rid of all those crosses too!

    After all, you don’t want to defy your gawd, do you?

  172. Lese Majeste  February 4, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

  173. Lese Majeste  February 4, 2010 at 11:57 am

    How many pagans agitated for the illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq?

    How many pagans are agitating for the illegal and immoral bombing of Iran?

    How many pagans are hoping for WWIII in the ME to bring about the Rapture?

    The answer to all questions is ZERO.

    “Go to heaven for the climate and hell for the company”

    Mark Twain

  174. TheDieHard  February 4, 2010 at 11:53 am


  175. TheDieHard  February 4, 2010 at 11:45 am

    You DESPERATELY need psychiatric treatment.

  176. TheDieHard  February 4, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Uh, the reason you “didn’t see a peep of protest” is because it didn’t happen, Mikey. Believing everything the 700 club tells you doesn’t make it true.

  177. The Druid Michael  February 4, 2010 at 11:03 am

    While some real religions do not feel the same, we Pagans welcome the differences in religions of the world. It is unfortunate that some may feel it necessary to damage this site of worship for nothing more than kicks. I would like to remind people of a couple of phrases in the Wiccan Rede: “Live and let live”, and of course: “An’ it harm none, do what thou wilt.” Those that do not understand or are blind to anything other than their own selfishness are the ones that suffer from their own ignorance.

  178. Anne  February 4, 2010 at 8:46 am

    Heh… we definitely need a sarcasm font. That phrase was one we used to use in the rather small pagan community when I was in the Army. We were all rather bloodthirsty little monsters, so it was meant as a dig at the stereotype. I don’t know anyone who actually fits the description, but most people who’ve had little-to-no interaction with pagans seem to think all pagans are like emo californians. Or are actually satanists, but I’m so tired of that one I could’t even joke about it.

    I’m not pagan, not Christian, not Moslem, not buddhist… but all of you have something I like, something valuable to me. I don’t like it when you all argue, and as the comedy sidekick in this religious debate I reserve the right to make fun of you all when you get cranky with each other.

  179. Ray McIntyre  February 4, 2010 at 8:34 am

    If a military academy is going to provide resources for worship it must, to my way of thinking, provide them for ALL the religions of all the people in the academy.

  180. Radz  February 4, 2010 at 6:30 am

    Christians suck.

  181. AFA Grad  February 4, 2010 at 5:21 am

    Not quite fact.

    Most of the settlers in Amercia came in order to practice their religion free from the Church of England. Commununites were established around those religious sects who were the equivalent of our “religious right” today. They weren’t seeking freedom from religion, they were seeking freedom to essentially be more strict and make their own laws based on their religious beliefs. Many of the states, having been based on those Christian communities, had established Christian denominations which were funded by the state. Some even required membership in the Church or a specific sect to hold public office.

    The establishment clause was written to protect the freedom of the various Christian religions endorsed by individual states that founded the Union from interference from the Federal Government. IE, they didn’t want Philadelphia (Washington) to dictate or interfere with their individual practicing of Christianity as the Church of England had done back in Europe. Some of those official designations carried over well into the 1800’s.

    America was very much founded as a Christian, not secular, nation. That does not excuse extremists within the Christian right to persecute others who do not follow their beliefs; and we certainly need to exercise religious tolerance and allow those who choose to worship differently the opportunity to do so. But to claim that we were not founded as a Christian nation is simply wrong. The founders intended this country to be governed based on Christian principles, but just not dominated or controlled by any one particular sect or denomination.

  182. Bob  February 4, 2010 at 5:01 am

    Thank you.

  183. gwyn  February 4, 2010 at 4:48 am

    well that would have been nice if anyone had HEARD about these ‘gay activists’ of which you speak. Prop Eight was national news and I didn’t hear about it any of those events.
    Those of ANY faith that act irrational in these manners are NOT practitioners of their own beliefs. They call themselves Christians, Catholics, Jewish, Muslims, and yes, even Pagans, but when they act in a manner such as those described here, they are an embarrassment to the HUMAN race and hypocrits.

    BE the change you speak about – BE a Christian, Pagan or whatever and THEN watch how you are naturally respected. These Wiccans on base were simply being what they believed and held true to it. They are correct in treating the incident the same as if someone sprayed graffiti on the chapel. It is disrespectful. The general rule of life: Do what ye will, yet HARM NONE. That includes yourself, dear Christians, in not following what you preach.

  184. Ray  February 4, 2010 at 4:05 am

    Which army would Jesus be a part of?

  185. Justin  February 4, 2010 at 3:59 am


  186. Amnon Shadow Walker  February 4, 2010 at 3:57 am

    LOVE IT!

    Hail Eris!

  187. Amnon Shadow Walker  February 4, 2010 at 3:56 am

    We’re getting there Marci,
    It was just last year (wasn’t it?) that we finally got to put the pent on our head stones. And I remember the small war a fellow went through to get ‘wiccan’ on his dog tag back in the 80’s (I was a weenie and just opted for ‘no pref’ on mine, I didn’t want the fight).

    We are getting there, just getting the grove in the first place was a *huge* win. We’ve been around for a long time and we are not going anywhere, we are here to stay.

    And we’ll keep coming back, again and again, no mater how many times they kill us! 😎


  188. Amnon Shadow Walker  February 4, 2010 at 3:43 am

    If only terrorists were so inept.

  189. Amnon Shadow Walker  February 4, 2010 at 3:41 am


    I salute your attitude and the service you and your husband are giving our country (Army wives may not be in uniform but they sure are in service).

    It’s good to remind people that most of the Christians are not of the ‘evil fundi’ bent.


  190. Amnon Shadow Walker  February 4, 2010 at 3:37 am

    Thank You Ceridwin!

    Well Said!


  191. Amnon Shadow Walker  February 4, 2010 at 3:34 am


    Someone who remembers what they were taught!

    Blessed Be!

  192. Bob  February 4, 2010 at 3:32 am

    Thank you!

    Finally, a voice of reason and intelligence.
    I WHOLLY agree with your entire post.

    Thank you again for saying what needed to be said.

  193. Amnon Shadow Walker  February 4, 2010 at 3:25 am

    >”Piss on Jebus”


    That is so not helpful.
    If you went out of your way like that to dump on Cernunnos or Diana or Thor or Frea or Dugda, I’d be offended.

    So on principal I’ll call you on it over The Budda or Mohammad or Jesus or Yahweh.

    Even if you believe in none of the gods, that does not give you license to castigate others gods.

    And it does not improve the environment here.


  194. Amnon Shadow Walker  February 4, 2010 at 3:09 am

    >”the granola-eating daisy-sniffing tree-hugging birkenstocken-wearing vegan values brigade.”

    Watch out, once you get out of the big cities, you’ll find several of us Wiccans and other flavors of Pagans who are meat-eating-boot-wearing-animal-killers (I kill what I eat and I eat what I kill) as my teacher used to tell me, ‘we are not nambi-bambi-pambi wiccans’. It would take a whole lot more than a couple of sticks in an ‘X’ to desecrate my circle.

    A wooden cross.
    I mean, Please….
    Is that all you got?!?

    -Amnon (Yep, I’ve been the green man)

  195. Conrad  February 4, 2010 at 2:35 am

    Before the Marriage Destruction Act (nice one) it was the right of one man and one women to be joined in Holy Matrimony. Gays had civil union which gave the same rights as marriage (at least in Canada) but of course you weren’t happy with that, you had to shit all over what we had

  196. Michael Leon  February 4, 2010 at 2:19 am

    Most of these men and women [mostly veterans and some like me who are advocates] are just looking to make it.

    This site was begun by Col David “Hack” Hackworth, the real-life guy upon whom the the Col Kilgore character in Apocylpyse Now was loosely based.

    The culture on the site is no kissing ass, tell the truth and speak your mind.

    We have helped a lot of people out, join the community and plug us into your network. Now, we are the most visable arbubly, veterans’ site on the net. Looking to make a difference at the Dept of Veterans Affairs and keep veterans and their families up on resources and world affairs.

    Bunch of crazy bastards but they grow on you.

  197. kathy  February 4, 2010 at 2:04 am

    degraded? are you kidding me?? it is YOUR Gods army???

    This country and YOUR army should be so lucky to have members who serve this country and ANY God.

    As for homosexuality, don’t be a moron. Are you REALLY that interested in what happens in other people’s private lives?

  198. Sekhmei  February 4, 2010 at 1:54 am

    I do so enjoy the creativity of the Erisi… It may be a christian cross to bear, but it’ll sure make a good drying rack / sacrificial platform / pile of firewood / big log to defend the site with / etc…

    Hail Eris!!!
    Hail Discordia!!!

    Er Suti Merit

  199. Col Flame  February 4, 2010 at 1:50 am

    Mike, Gee a veterans blog with no one commenting on something that did not happen on a military instillation or that directly effects the good order and conduct of the military; THE HORROR!

    Oh by the way I received three death threats and had to replace my car window twice because I had a no on 8 sticker, no one commented on that either!

    Go practice your christian hate somewhere else!

  200. Sekhmei  February 4, 2010 at 1:42 am

    Hi Paul, I’m Chris.

    A few points to consider:

    “In the United States, the motto first appeared on a coin in 1864 during strong Christian sentiment emerging during the Civil War, but In God We Trust did not become the official U.S. national motto until after the passage of an Act of Congress in 1956.”

    “The Pledge of Allegiance to the United States is an oath of loyalty to the republic of the United States of America, originally composed by Francis Bellamy in 1892. The Pledge has been modified four times since then, with the most recent change adding the words “under God” in 1954.”

    By the way, the original text reads:

    “I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all.”

    Another point to consider:

    “The religious views of Thomas Jefferson diverged widely from the orthodox Christianity of his day. Throughout his life Jefferson was intensely interested in theology, biblical study, and morality.[93] He is most closely connected with the Episcopal Church, the religious philosophy of Deism, and Unitarianism. He is reported to have said, ‘Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.'”

    I honestly don’t care if you believe that this is a “christian nation”. I don’t care if you confuse God and morphine, like Jerry Falwell. But as soon as you try to press your beliefs on another, then it becomes EVERYBODY’S business. You have the right to believe whatever you wish, SO LONG AS YOU DO NOT INFRINGE ON THAT SAME RIGHT IN OTHERS!!!

    To paraphrase a great person: I may not agree with your beliefs, but I will defend to the death your right to believe them.

    Er Suti Merit

  201. Rose  February 4, 2010 at 1:34 am

    At least the military does allow soldiers to now pick a pentacle, among many other potential symbols, to put on their gravestone should they be buried in Arlington…

  202. Rose  February 4, 2010 at 1:32 am

    Under God was not added to the Pledge of Allegiance until the 1950s… As was the In God We Trust on American currency… So I don’t think that argument holds any water…

    Those phrases were not included originally, and probably shouldn’t be now…

  203. Dawn  February 4, 2010 at 1:29 am

    Wow, American Dad may well be speaking from a place of fear and ignorance, but so are you. So let me guess you think he’s more wrong than you are? Incorrect your both showing a complete display of lack of tolerance for anyone who doesn’t believe the same way you do. And both of you should be ashamed of yourselves. This is America and nobody has to walk your walk or talk your talk they are allowed to be themselves whether you two like it or not! Now both of you shut up!

  204. Rose  February 4, 2010 at 1:28 am

    Truth in its best form, SueBee!

    I am also related to several military members (former and current), but this kind of behavior is unacceptable from anyone, no matter their race, creed, sexual preference or affiliations otherwise. Without acceptance there will never be peace and unfortunately, certain groups among the monotheistic faiths seem more interested in tearing others down than living by the rules put forth by their deity. That is not being Christian, Pagan, Wiccan or anything. It’s being petty and cruel.

    I say differences are what make us all special, no matter what those differences are! Still, we are all Americans and we are ALL HUMAN!!! Once the entire world realizes there really aren’t that many differences from one group to another, I hope there will be peace.

    Until then, I stand proud as a Pagan and though I cannot serve in the military, I honor those who do because they have sworn to fight for every American and for the American Constitution. Thank you all!

    Protect the First Amendment!

  205. Dawn  February 4, 2010 at 1:14 am

    I just have to say this, as the daughter of several generations of Military Veterans. I would like to thank each and every one of you who has fought and died for this country and for the freedoms that I have today. Speaking as a Pagan follower and a woman, if it weren’t for those in the service, I would probably be sitting on a floor somewhere, barefoot and pregnant, with no rights what-so-ever, owned solely by my husband. Instead, I am a proud woman who owns her own business, wears pants on a regular basis, has freedom to do what I want with my womb, and can hold my head high walking through a crowded room, knowing that I am free to do and say what I want.
    To the Christians who agree with this act – Remember, Jesus taught love. Love, respect and consideration for your fellow man. Did he judge the prostitutes or the tax collectors – no – he didn’t even try to get them to follow him. They would have to make that choice on their own.
    To the Christians who are just as horrified by this act – thank you for your respect and kindness. May you be blessed in all you do, for you are truly following the Golden Rule.
    To the Wiccans and Pagans – Please remember – Harm None – whether with word or deed. Do not stupe as low as those Fundamentalists who try to press our buttons. We are stronger than that.

    Brightest Blessings and may all the Gods protect our soldiers.

  206. Justin  February 4, 2010 at 1:13 am

    Agreed. Also I think that cross would look great with some Keltic runes or maybe some Kabalic script carved into it, considering the cross has been around much longer than christianity….

  207. Anne  February 4, 2010 at 1:06 am

    Wiccans are nice. They have essential oils, which smell nice, and they cook yummy food, and they like setting things on fire. (They’re mostly over setting people on fire, which is good.) They dance a lot and drink a lot and tend to be really happy people, except for the “oh we’re so persecuted burning times minority religion” pity-party-piece that pops out once in a while (and to be fair, they generally are persecuted, so it’s not like it’s a fake emo thing.)

    I think Jesus would like Wiccans.

    But I can totally see how a bunch of gun-toting militant Evangelicals would be terrified of the granola-eating daisy-sniffing tree-hugging birkenstocken-wearing vegan values brigade. ‘Cause they’re a lot more fun than starched shirts and church, so the kids are all gonna go be free-love hellspawn and drop acid and smoke dope and never amount to anything….

    Whoa. Flashback to the 60’s.

  208. Anne  February 4, 2010 at 12:58 am

    But you live in a country where other people are free to make graven images and bow down all they want. It’s your law, not theirs. You don’t want them telling you you have to bow down to an image, you need to realize that you can’t make them follow your beliefs either.

    It’s a basic, practical solution to the problem; you do your thing, they do theirs, and nobody tells anybody else what to do. Free will, and all that.

    Why force the issue? Why get so upset? If you’re confident in your faith, why worry about other people? Faith isn’t like cooties, you can’t catch it from someone else. You’re not going to wake up one day and find you have a burning desire to dance around the lawn naked worshiping the moon just because you read in the paper that that your neighbors do that sort of thing, any more than they’re going to suddenly decide to kneel down in a church ebcause that’s what you get up to on a Sunday morning.

    Have a little self-confidence, quit being so scared, and play nice.

  209. Anne  February 4, 2010 at 12:52 am

    You have to give them props for Saint Francis. He was pretty cool.

    Not all the Christians are nightmares. Just like not all Wiccans are complete sweethearts. It’s a people thing, not a faith thing.

    Granted, there are ideas which some religions have which are bad ideas, which make people do bad things; and the Evangelicals tend to have more bad ideas than most…. Ok, a LOT more. Still. I’m certain there must be at least one decent Evangelical somewhere.

  210. Anne  February 4, 2010 at 12:48 am

    You’re a sweetheart, and you’re doing your faith right. Thank you. 🙂

  211. Anne  February 4, 2010 at 12:47 am

    The ones who aren’t scared to be nice to everyone they meet.

    Or so I’m told.

  212. Anne  February 4, 2010 at 12:43 am

    Oh, what, no lesbians then? Sexist pig… You’ve obviously never tried to out-muscle a bull dyke in a bar where they were serving free vodka. 🙂

  213. Anne  February 4, 2010 at 12:42 am

    Grace, dear, your response shows a sad lack of the defining characteristic of your name. Your savior hung around with prostitutes and wasn’t snotty about it. Please try to have a little kindness and a lot less fear.

  214. Anne  February 4, 2010 at 12:39 am

    Oh, don’t be like that. Jesus sounds like a nice guy. Do you blame Che for all the little hippie wannabes wearing his face on their tits? Jesus got his name hijacked by cretins is all.

    Not that I believe in all that religious stuff, but really, there ought to be a statute of limitations on how long you can blame someone for what other people do in their name. Like, less than a thousand years. Then you have to say “It’s not Jesus’ fault some of his followers are child-molesting frothing rabid freaks, the statute of limitations on religious blame has run out.”

  215. Anne  February 4, 2010 at 12:35 am

    You know, I had a friend who thought that pagans were devil-worshipers. I tried to explain pagans didn’t believe in the devil, so they couldn’t worship something they didn’t believe in, but he said they were worshiping the devil and didn’t know it.

    Which, honestly, makes no sense to me. Prays and worship are all about intent, right? About conscious choice and free will. So, if you of your own free will choose to worship a rock, that’s absolutely not the same thing as of your own free will worshiping the devil. It’s a rock. A rock is not the devil. Only the devil is the devil.

    Except, as far as I can tell from reading, Jesus didn’t believe in the devil, so…. why do modern Christians? He believed in demons, yeah, but not the Devil as the head demon in charge.

    I cold be wrong, but really I think all this devil talk is an excuse to be angry about something. Being angry is fun, we all love to be angry when we think we’re right. So I reckon people really enjoy being angry over devil-worship. And because they enjoy it, because they like the feeling of righteous wrath, they like to find devils everywhere they look whenever stuff doesn’t go their own way.

    And I’m not trying to be judgmental here, but people who get upset about devils tend to creep me out a little. They’re so worried all the time, they forget that the guy they idolize hung around with hookers and preached peace & love.

    Conclusion: Wiccans preach peace & love. I think Jesus would like them.

  216. Jojo  February 3, 2010 at 11:32 pm

    I think that they should only allow male homosexuals into the military. The greeks had an upper class of great fighters that were men married to other men. You will fight harder for your lover than just some GI. What a way to get America on top in 2010, hehe. We will kick some ass, hehe like the world hasn’t scene since Korea. As for the cross and the pagan thing, it wasn’t the Christians.

  217. Sekhmei  February 3, 2010 at 11:31 pm

    Here here!!!

    One day, they will understand that the only sacred space is the soul, and that the only one who can desecrate a soul is the owner of that soul.

    It’s sad that people would attempt to do harm by such an act… It belittles their beliefs, but does no real harm.

    I hope that those responsible will show Christ-like dignity and step forward. Or maybe they’ve forgotten the lesson of Peter…

    Er Suti Merit

  218. Ubangi Gonzolas  February 3, 2010 at 11:25 pm

    As a high Priestess of the Discordian branch of Wicca, I see this as a Golden Opportunity, a gift from the Gods. Erect the Cross on the Wiccan ground in a very visible location and let the celebrations begin. On Feb 1, Imbolc in the Wiccan tradition, crucify a Ground Hog on the cross, or a reasonable facsimile. On Easter, the Easter Bunny gets his turn in the limelight, up he goes. Augutst 1, Lammas, a scarecrow will be nailed up. On Samhain, Oct 31, Pumpkinhead is sacrificed. And last but not least, Yule, Dec 21, Santa Claus takes his place of honor on the cross. The rest of the Holidays can be filled with a little thought (very little) and the cross could be occupied all year. Thank you Christians for giving such a useful gift in such a meaningless way. All Hail Eros!

  219. Sekhmei  February 3, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    Um… If you look up in many churches, you will find just that… The Church took the use of the Triskal to represent The Holy Trinity. For centuries prior, the same symbol was used to denote another trinity: Maiden, Mother Crone.

    That being said, to do unto them as they have done unto others would be a violation of both their beliefs and Wiccan beliefs. I abhor the hateful acts perpetrated in the name of Christ, but cannot condone retaliation. I would gladly defend the holy site of anyone, of any faith, without reservation… whether those who sought desecration were merely retaliating for another atrocity or not.

    The particular aspect of the Divine that I follow (my religion teaches that ALL gods are faces of the creator, that we may understand) asks that his followers defend others, regardless of their beliefs. I will not waver.

    Er Suti Merit

  220. Nick  February 3, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion, —as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen, —and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.” — Article 11, Treaty of Tripoli. 1797. Signed by President John Adams.

  221. Steve  February 3, 2010 at 11:16 pm

    Dispicable. How dare those defilers call themselves Christians! They should embrace those Wiccans as brothers, not denounce their religion as evil!

  222. Athena Holter-Mehren  February 3, 2010 at 10:41 pm

    Your a jackass, and you put my military to shame.

  223. Athena Holter-Mehren  February 3, 2010 at 10:37 pm

    Actually, every heterosexual adult over the age of 18 DOES have the right to get legally married. It is a flaw in our legal system that people are not allowed to legally become a union with whoever they so choose. As far as what your religion, whatever it may be, has to say about their “right’ to be wed, I don’t think they rightly give a damn, nor should your opinion have any bearing on another’s circumstances. That would be incredibly unfair, and immoral. Besides, marriage has absolutely nothing to do with some obnoxious religious brats attempting to insult and destroy a place of peace and worship for another faith. Is it really that hard for people to see each other’s point of view, or at least respect their right to have a different one????

  224. Rev Marci Drewry  February 3, 2010 at 10:35 pm

    It is interesting that this happened once again. Noted I said, once again. Sacred Well Congregation of Wicca is a major supporter of the less than supported by the Military Chaplaincy Pagan community in the entire US Military. As I said, this is not the first time a hate crime has been perpetrated against our groups. A few years back at Fort Hood, TX there was a beautiful 800 pound stone donated to our circle there. It was desecrated and damaged beyond repair. That took a lot of muscle and determination. I notified the CID office there and reported it as a hate crime but of course nothing was ever done about it. I guess if you are a Wiccan in the military the First Amendment right to freedom to practice your religion is an after thought to the US Military and when those rights are stomped on, well…..Not a big issue. I am with Mikey. How would the General have felt if they went into the main post chapel and found a gigantic Pentacle propped up on the alter? Oh, I forgot, the chapel is for EVERY faith, yet we are not welcome to use it for our worship so we asked for a small spot of ground outside and this is the treatment our airmen get who are Pagans? Shame on you General, Shame on you!

  225. Jeff  February 3, 2010 at 10:17 pm

    In heaven, there is no beer. That’s why we drink it here!

    I’ll bring the beer.

  226. Martha  February 3, 2010 at 10:02 pm

    Yes, let’s find acceptance of each other in our commonalities, instead of focusing on our differences.
    Christians, do you not respect the earth, nature, and the seasons?

  227. Grace  February 3, 2010 at 9:58 pm

    I am with you 100%, American Dad!

  228. R. E. Lawry  February 3, 2010 at 9:56 pm

    Did I miss something. How do they know that a “Christian” did this. This appears to be someone stirring up trouble. There are lots of people, “Christian” and otherwise enjoying strife.

  229. Jeff  February 3, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    Ok, so some childish prankster leaned a wooden cross against a rock. Whoop-dee-doo. It was probably some college prank by a “greek” pledge trying to score some pledge points. At least they didn’t damage or disturb anything. You ought to thank him for bringing you free firewood for heating your cauldron or whatever else you use fire for in your religious services, and invite him to bring you more firewood as often as he pleases!

  230. Rogue11  February 3, 2010 at 9:31 pm

    No it wasn’t brief but it was great to read! Just want to say that I read through all the comments and I think that there are more people out their keeping the hope of equality alive than there are people ready to burn the bridge to that road…….which is good to hear… keep those open minds coming people we have a long road ahead to break free from the christian extremists and mandates that are routinely fed to us! Pick up the pace!

  231. randomwiccan  February 3, 2010 at 9:26 pm

    No, don’t piss on ANYBODY….that’s the point!
    Blessed be

  232. Wachinagi  February 3, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    Just a quick “Have to Reply” to American Dad. You said “This is derived from the first commandment and leaves no doubt about what God thinks of false idols. -Gods words not mine.”

    I could spend a year picking apart that statement, but let’s try to keep it brief.

    Are you Moses? Did you actually hear Gods voice and recieve the commandments on the mountain? Because if you aren’t, then there is certainly doubt that these are “Gods words”.

    The bible is NOT God’s word. Period. It was written by MEN. They held a council to bring all the various Christian faiths together under one tome, as each had different beliefs and practices. This is a well documented and historical fact. It took ages to get them to all agree on what should be and what should not be in the Bible. Are you seriously going to tell me that God is the all-knowing and perfect creator of the universe, yet he’s just a crappy writer, and needed a bunch of humans to edit and change “his word”? The Bible is a collection of stories passed along and changing with each passing until finally they were written down. And even then changes occur in the book with new printings. Hell, even the “Lords Prayer” is different from Church to Church.

    And why you ask does our money have the terms “Under God” and “In God we Trust” on them?

    Well first off, I’m sure that God isn’t working at one of the U.S. Mints, so it’s not HIS cash (God has an AMEX by the way), and as it was printed from a plate that was engraved in metal, and could therefore be considered a graven image or “False Idol” So using a false idol to prove that this is God’s Nation seems a little odd.

    A politician, or group of politicians appealing to the majority Voters in a Nation by using buzz words and catch phrases to win them over like “No new Taxes” or “In God we Trust”? Say it ain’t so! I’m so dis-illusioned now.

    Crap…that wasn’t very brief.

  233. randomwiccan  February 3, 2010 at 9:18 pm

    “Do as thou wilt and it shall harm none.”
    That is all.

  234. Rogue11  February 3, 2010 at 9:18 pm

    Preach on!

  235. Rogue11  February 3, 2010 at 9:10 pm

    Someone sure sounds like a closet case. To even try and compare gay rights with this dog pile of religious crap is out of whack. Marriage isn’t a right, it is a priviledge…one that all tax payers and those who are citizens of this country have a RIGHT to…. REGARDLESS of their sexual orientation or religious beliefs. Get a clue and stop being such a bonehead. There are gays and lesbians all around but no worries it isn’t contagious…. and we don’t criticize you for being a heterosexual…..just want the same rights that are given to all Americans under the constitution. Forget being an American and try thinking like a human being.

  236. Dennis  February 3, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    Well Paul,

    The “under god” and “in god we trust” are both relatively recent additions to our money etc. These were added during the Civil War (80+ years after the founding of the United States. They were made mandatory in the 1950s during the height of the Cold War against the godless commies. “The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War.” ( So religious fundies are still cursing us to this day.

  237. Kate  February 3, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    Dude, this isn’t even what this is about.

  238. Nexus  February 3, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    Don’t bother arguing theology with the guy. Most people can’t separate Faith and Belief.

  239. Wachinagi  February 3, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    “Christians” who promote violence and intolerance are not “Christians”. Christ promoted peace and acceptance, and this violent and amoral view of the world is a perversion of his message. So in fact, doing the opposite of what Jesus taught should be considered…Satanism? Seems like sound logic to me. These people are no more Christians than the “Pro-life” people KILLING doctors are Pro-Life. I don’t feel bad for these idiots that spew hate forth in the name of a loving God, they are fools and whatever judgement awaits us all will set them straight. I do feel sorry for their children though, being taught hate they may never get to feel the love that Jesus sacrificed himself to provide. To sum up: Intolorant and evil “Christians” are not spreading the message of the Devil, but they are quite possibly ensuring that their children will be following them to hell.

    Let people believe what they want to believe. How does someone elses mental image or God, how do rituals you think to pointless and ineffective, hurt you in any way?

  240. Nicki  February 3, 2010 at 9:01 pm

    You are the most pathetically UNAmerican Dad I’ve ever had the displeasure of noticing. As an Army veteran, I served to protect your right to be a complete, repugnant Christofascist dick. As an immigrant and a naturalized citizen who came to this nation of the free to avoid persecution at the hands of the Soviets for being a Jew, I find you repugnant.

  241. Nexus  February 3, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    American Dad

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    That’s the First Amendment, that’s why the US is not a christian nation, the Government cannot establish it as such.

    While the US is largely a Christian Society this does not make it a Christian Nation.

    You can believe anything you wish but law and fact are just that.

  242. Random Visitor  February 3, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    No graven image or likeness of ANYTHING in heaven or earth. So where does that leave pictures of crosses?

  243. American Dad  February 3, 2010 at 8:40 pm

    Why would I publish my name Jesse, you don’t even publish yours? Would you like my full name so you can come and hurt my home or my family? I pray for you all, this country is in turmoil, if it wasn’t a christen nation then why is it ” UNDER GOD” and “IN GOD WE TRUST” on our money? I don’t see Allah, or Buddha on OUR money.

    By the way “Jesse” If that is your real name my name is Paul.

    “You shall make no graven image or any likeness of anything in heaven or earth, nor bow down to any such thing.” This is derived from the first commandment and leaves no doubt about what God thinks of false idols. – Gods words not mine

  244. Nicki  February 3, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    I don’t think it’s a matter of angering Pagans, as yes, they’re tolerant. It’s a matter of some people’s complete intolerance toward others. That’s the problem.

  245. AFP  February 3, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    Well, not anymore, thanks to the Marriage Destruction Act.

  246. Nexus  February 3, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    This is disgusting, when are people going to learn and come to grips with the fact The United States of America is not a Christian Country. Sure the founders of the US may have been Christian, but they also understood that religion should be a free choice, and tried to ensure the protection of a persons own beliefs in the form of the First Amendment of the Constitution.

    Fine example there boys, each of you is preparing to act as defenders of the Constitution, yet you pissed all over it with this one…fine work there.

    Actually I’m thinking of writing my Congressional Representatives asking that an investigation be enacted with the result of expulsion for all those that were involved.

  247. Nicki  February 3, 2010 at 8:31 pm

    That’s the same kind of crap the Democrats spew when they’re called on their failures. But… But… But… Buuuuuuuuuuush!

    I’m fairly sure the Wiccans did nothing to Christian churches, so desecrating their site, no matter how minor you consider placing a cross where people don’t practice Christianity and just want their own holy space, is wrong. Period.

  248. Old Soldier  February 3, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    Now, now, everyone calm down. Before we assume the Christians did this, let us recall that the cross was the traditional Pagan means of execution of Christians and others, especially those convicted of treason against the Roman Empire.

    Now whomever placed the cross in a Pagan place of worship, if done so with the intent of violating the Pagan’s constitutional rights, has certainly violated any oath that may have been made to preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the United States. If that person is then convicted of treason, I believe execution to be the possible punishment.

    If that person is Christian, they should want to be ‘Christ-like’. Isn’t that what they say? Don’t Christians claim their Christ was executed on a cross by Pagan Romans for his claim of being ‘King of the Jews’?

    I hope somebody saved that cross ’cause there just may be a traitor and/or Christian to nail to it shortly.

  249. Pat  February 3, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    Marriage is not a right.

  250. D Raymond  February 3, 2010 at 8:15 pm

    Being it’s in Colorado Springs where many of the cultic “quasi-Christian” organizations have their offices…you will never see any arrested…much less prosecuted.

  251. D Raymond  February 3, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    Mmmmm…sounds like the same message from the folks who attempted to kidnap the children from Haiti. The history of this nation makes me ashamed whenever someone with some religious bent forces others to bend to their will. Even Jesus knew not everyone would believe in him.

    Even though I am Christian…stunts like putting the cross on another’s holy ground & doing many things in Christ’s name because they never got past the mental block that others don’t believe the same as you do…just shows megalomania at its finest.

  252. Radz  February 3, 2010 at 8:04 pm

    christian idiots. all they’ve ever done is ruin the world. This is just another example.

  253. Knottie  February 3, 2010 at 7:48 pm

    This is terrorism in the name of christianity!

  254. Jo Ann Aelfwine  February 3, 2010 at 7:42 pm

    Just more right-wing hypocrisy. They seem to think that by forcing their views on everyone else the world will get better. Like the issue over public prayers. If Christianity were that great of a religion, why do so many of their “leaders” not live by their own moral code? Ted Haggard. Jimmy Swaggert. James Baker. Mark Sanford. John Edwards. Shall I keep going? It seems that the more they fail in their own lives, the brasher they become about trying to force it down everyone else’s throat. If Jesus should ever even THINK about coming back, he certainly won’t come back to evnagelicals.

  255. Chris  February 3, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    I’ll bring the hamburgers, steaks and spare ribs.

  256. vel  February 3, 2010 at 7:33 pm

    The problem is that Christians aren’t quite sure what they believe and it’s always those “other Christians” who didnt’ get the memo from God on what he “really meant”. We have Christian fight clubs (google Christian and mixed martial arts) and we have universalist Christians. We have Fred Phelps and jerks like at the Academy and we have Christians who support gay marrige. Who are the real Christians?

  257. Captain Sensible  February 3, 2010 at 7:32 pm

    Piss on Jebus

  258. SueBee  February 3, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    As a non-Christian woman of Native American heritage who has many generations of veterns of both sexes on both sides of my family, I am gladdened by the response of US veterans and their supporters to the desecration of the non-Christian religious site.

    Through your truly patriotic sentiments (unlike those of other people here, many who are probably armchair patriots at best) I know that the sacrifices of my family members for their country was not made in vain, but so that I can continue to practice my religion in peace.

    Long live religious freedom, and those who remember the principles the US was founded on.

  259. BReed  February 3, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    now you’re being just as much of a bigot as they are. not all christians are bad. not all christians are hard core fundamentalist. it’s the same with any group/religion. there are good ones and bad ones. there are some who know what the hell they’re talking about and there are those that follow the preachings of radicals like blind sheep.

  260. Chris  February 3, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    I am a gay pagan and I speak three languages, but the kind of hatred expressed by people like American Dad is why I would refuse to ever serve in the military. I do, however, have deep respect for those who do.

  261. BReed  February 3, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    I joined and fought in the military to protect this nation from people JUST LIKE YOU. You parade around and act like you’re religion is better than others (even if we do share the same religion – we do not think alike). America is not God’s nation nor is the American Armed Forces God’s army. I, along with all soldiers who have fought and/or died for this country, fought to protect it from those trying to oppress their beliefs onto others. I fought so YOU and everyone else could have the freedom from oppression and have the freedom to choose and practice whatever religion they want (among other things). I don’t have to agree with their religion. However, as a moral man, I do respect their opinions and choices and religion. I look with an open eye so that I might understand them better and understand their reasoning. I don’t have to agree…I only have show the same respect to them as I want in return. You know, that whole ‘do unto others…’ stuff in the bible? perhaps you’ve heard of it?

  262. Bhockzer  February 3, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    Or maybe they could invite them to celebrate the Feast of the Son of Isis.

  263. ringo  February 3, 2010 at 7:02 pm


    But of course this is exactly the same thing…

  264. CeCe  February 3, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    As a Christian and an Army wife, I’m appalled… but sadly, not surprised. I don’t think that some people realize how hurtful their actions are… and if they do, I don’t understand how they can be so uncaring.
    This is wrong. I hope they catch whoever was responsible.

  265. Danielle  February 3, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    Dude, not cool. This country was founded on religious freedom. If you wish to live in a religious state go to Iran. If not, then deal with the fact other people will believe things differnt from you and you cannot do a thing about it. If fact if you try then the government will protect them and NOT you.

  266. Michael Leon  February 3, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    Bruce, we display who we are by what we do and wish for others.

    I salute you, and wish the haters well, man, they need our help.

  267. Michael Leon  February 3, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    Copy that, I wish the man who expressed a wish for doing me harm, I wish him well.

    This is for you, “Wow,” from SRV:

    … And the guy that’s standing on the ground, that needs some help.
    You don’t walk up and kick him, if you goona do that
    You better wear his shoes for awhile.
    Because you know what? Trade places with him and he’ll pick you up.
    It’s the truth.

    You better pass around as much love as you can in your lifetime.
    It’s all we really have to give or accept.
    Are you with me?

  268. American Baby Daddy  February 3, 2010 at 6:40 pm

    Obvious troll is obvious.

  269. Bruce M  February 3, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    Thank GOD I’m an athiest, (and a former USAF SSgt), for I have far better morals that the evil American Christian Evangelical. Okay AFA, it’s back to the drawing board, how are you going to stop the harassment of non Christians now, or do you care?

  270. Boohoo  February 3, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    You didnt see anything “on this board” because this is VETERANSTODAY.COM.

    This incident involved a MILITARY ACADEMY.

    What in the situation you describe involved the military or veterans AT ALL?

    Get it?

    No? Too bad. STFU moron.

  271. Random Visitor  February 3, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    What thou doest unto others, for good or for ill, shall return unto thee threefold. I’d be careful about wishing that rape and murder on someone else, buddy.

  272. Ceridwin  February 3, 2010 at 6:23 pm

    While I can see what the christians /thought/ they were doing … as a practicing wiccan I can assure you a wooden cross is NOT desecrating sacred space.

    Not one Pagan I know would see it as such. As an affront. an insult and as an ATTEMPT to desecrate, surely … but placement of a cross does NOT make the space any less sacred or profane it.

    Silly christians, can’t even do that right!

    Blessed Be

  273. estevan  February 3, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    Wicca isn’t witchcraft.

    Witchcraft is a set of tools and methods for spell work.

    Wicca is an Earth based religion. Two separate entities that can be combined, but at essence, are not one.

    Educate yourself before you open your mouth.

  274. Marshall  February 3, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    Modern Christian’s are terrorists and have been for quite a long time. They own the biggests guns, and are the most likely to use them against innocent people.

    Modern Christian = Hate, fear, lies, and murder.

    Christian’s should learn about love and respect.

    I agree that if Jesus was to return, Modern Christians would demonize him before locking him in prison for life. They would then say “GOD” is the real Christ, and Jesus is just some drunk kid raised in a broken single parent home who most likely beats his dog daily.

  275. Jarhead  February 3, 2010 at 6:14 pm

    You Sir like all of the other Extremest Christians are no better than the radical Muslims. I am sure that this country was based on Freedom of Religion. This is no more Gods Nation than the Mid East is Allah’s nation. You are free to your opinion and WE the members of this great nations military will DIE to protect the freedoms you have!! The same way we will defend Wiccans, Pagans, Muslims, Jews, and even your pathetic religion!!!!

  276. Dawn  February 3, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    Ugh, so tired of fundy maniacs. They need a brain transplant. This is a hate crime.

  277. Dawn  February 3, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    Up yours, Amerikkkan Dad!

  278. James  February 3, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    Jesus please save from your followers, most of whom appear to be nothing more than biggots and idiots.

  279. Michael Leon  February 3, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    I don’t feel the love coming from you, “Wow…”.

    If I expressed a wish for rape, murder and so on, I would feel awful. What’s up with the hate? I would really like to know.

  280. Maudite  February 3, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    Well, that’s unfortunate, perhaps the Wiccans can respond by placing something from a traditional pagan religion in the Christian church? How about an evergreen tree? Or boughs of cedar or pine branches? Maybe burn some incense as a sacrifice? Or pass around a large cup of wine?

  281. John  February 3, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    Being a Roman Catholic and having gone through the pain of their teachings I am appalled at this act.

    This is the reason why separation of church and state is required in this country. All Faiths including thoes that choose not to have any faith in a god must be allowed to live their lives in peace.

    These Evangelical and Pentecostal types are the worst groups of people that I have ever met or known. They preach their Christian and Family values but never and I mean never practice them unless its in their personal interests.

    This country was founded on Freedoms not rule of a Church or some self made pastor.

    It is my humble opinion that all of these Evangelical and Pentecostal types get out of this country and find their own, Oh wait that happend already, Remember the Jonestown Massacre. You know the Indianapolis preacher James Warren Jones… you know moved everyone of his flock to Guyana, flee-ing a I.R.S. investigation, which created Jonestown.

    A quote from

    “the People’s Temple would preserve their church by making the ultimate sacrifice: their own lives. Jones’s 912 followers were given a deadly concoction of a purple drink mixed with cyanide, sedatives, and tranquilizers. Jones apparently shot himself in the head.”

    Where do you think we got the phrase “drink the kool Aid” from.

    This is what these Evangelical and Pentecostal types want either all of the money and power they can get or they will marytr their congregations and themselves for what?

    Get Religion out of our way so we the people of hte united states can do good things for us and the world.

  282. xspook  February 3, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    President George W. Bush told French President Jacques Chirac in early 2003 that Iraq must be invaded to thwart Gog and Magog, the Bible’s satanic agents of the Apocalypse.

    Honest. This isn’t a joke. The president of the United States, in a top-secret phone call to a major European ally, asked for French troops to join American soldiers in attacking Iraq as a mission from God.

  283. Dan-in-PA  February 3, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    Liar. You are promoting the anti-christ.

    beware the false prophets

  284. Dan-in-PA  February 3, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    Why are the cowardly assholes who did this still earning a paycheck out of my tax dollars?

    These very unchristian scaredy cats should be fired from the Air Force that represents ALL Americans. They are an embarrassment.

  285. B  February 3, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    Not cool at all. You may disagree with the person, but wishing violence will happen to them is awful.

  286. Phil  February 3, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    Christ preached peace, what part of peace do my fellow Christians not understand?

  287. Jesse  February 3, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    You fully stand by your beliefs? Why do you have to hide behind the anonymity of the internet. If you truly believe what you feel, publish your real name? Or, are you one of those closeted bigots??

    Funny how you crazy fundies have so much to say on a comment board, but can’t stand behind your comments enough to publish who you really are.

    You’re a dying breed. People are waking up and noticing that the real problem with society is you ‘religious’ fanatatics who degrage, insult and force your beliefs on everyone else, and hide behind some magical fairy tale called the bible. If we could get rid of hatefull religions like the one you apparently practice, this world would be a better place.

  288. You sir...  February 3, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    …are a pathetically outdated, worthless, broken sack of sh*t. Humanity has no use for you and your infantile nonsense – you should be thrown away with the rest of the garbage.

  289. B  February 3, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    It’s wrong for the desecration of the Wiccan sacred place, just the same as if a church was desecrated the same week it opened.

    If gay rights activists desecrated churches that’s awful.

    Interesting how you didn’t put how it’s awful that it happened to a Wiccan site at all, but started pointing fingers at “look what they did”. Maybe you didn’t mean it, but it certainly comes across as saying it’s bad if it happens to Christians but not if it happens to others.

    Desecration is bad, no matter who does it.

  290. Jay  February 3, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    “Gods Army for Gods Nation” my ass.

    Keep your “god” out of the government. The US is not a Christian country. Deal with it. If you don’t like it, you’re free to move to the Vatican.

  291. Michael Leon  February 3, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    American Dad, Are you serious?

    Put your name behind that remark. Do you stand by your beliefs?

  292. Michael Leon  February 3, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    You have a point, Mike, on the tactics you describe. But do you ever notice that the rightwing Christians are acting to take away the rights of others, and others are working for liberties and civil rights of all people?

    I’m not Jewish, Wiccan, gay, Arab or black, but I believe working for liberty and rights is a noble enterprise.

  293. Otto  February 3, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    Speaking as a veteran myself, I must say that you, sir, are a buffoon.

  294. American Dad  February 3, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    If they don’t want to get harassed they can convert, the fact that homosexuals and “witchcraft” are allowed on a military base is further proof of how degraded this nation has become. I applaud those who did it, they need to know they’re not welcome here. Serving in the military or not, it is gods army for gods nation.

  295. Druid  February 3, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    Funny that they think this will anger any wiccan or pagan out there. As an active pagan myself, i say they make it a permanent fixture at the site. Pagans (the majority) are very open and accepting of other religions. As for the builders of the site, welcome the addition into our rich faith, or as it says in the Bible, Turn the other cheek.

  296. Justin  February 3, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    That’s a pretty unfair comparison. It’s not like the Wiccans organized a campaign to take away civil rights from a minority group.

  297. Mike Griffith  February 3, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    Funny, but I didn’t see a peep of protest on this board about all the Christian churches that were vandalized in Calfornia by gay rights activists after Proposition 8 passed. Not one word. Nor did I see one peep of protest when gay rights activists entered Christian churches and interrupted services by screaming profanity and throwing condoms and gay literature at the congregations following the Prop 8 vote.

    But, oh my, a few Christians put . . . gasp . . . a cross at a Wiccan site, and you guys are shocked and outraged.

  298. AFA Grad  February 3, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    As the Academic Dean, Dana Born wouldn’t really be responsible for taking action on this, so I’m not sure why Weinstein is focused on her, unless they thought a faculty member under her command was the one who put the cross there. This is a matter for the base leadership, or Commandant’s office if they believe it was cadets.

    This really shouldn’t be involving the OSI either, which is responsible for investigating felony crimes.

    I don’t know that this is necessarily the work of Evangelical Christians, it just as likely a bunch of lowbrow pranksters. If it was cadets, it’s a shame that someone who has taken an oath to defend the Constitution and presumably, the religious freedoms that accompany it, would act like such asses.

  299. Michael Leon  February 3, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Thank you for your comment. I guess we will both be spending eternity in hellfire.

    They’ll be a lot of people I know there, but I look forward to meeting new friends.

    I can bring some weed, red wine, and some other stuff.

    We’ll get to that party when we get there but it’s going to be great.

  300. Lese Majeste  February 3, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    The same Evangelical and Pentecostal types that are praying for a nuclear war so Jesus can descend from heaven on a radioactive cloud would be the same ones calling for JC’s head if he returned to Earth today.

    They’d look at someone who never married, always hung around with men and allegedly had long hair as some ‘fag’ and chase him down for another visit to Golgotha.

You must be logged in to post a comment Login

From Veterans Today Network