Please g-d, Rid Us of the Constant SEAL Whining


Some of us remember…only 38 SEALS died in a decade of Vietnam


by Gordon Duff, Senior Editor

Marine Combat Veteran

It begins again, more political right wing money chasing by people claiming to be NAVY SEALS.  Those of us who served in Vietnam know.  Few of them died because they just weren’t around.

YouTube - Veterans Today -

The political ad below is taken from photos of others.  Read the disclaimer.  The voice is an actor.  The money to produce it came from sale of heroin to school children.  Be proud.

I actually understand that.  They had few missions, no supervision and the smarts to stay in the rear with the Scotch and girls.  I don’t fault them that, just when they whine.  I reward smarts and failing to die at the hands of the NVA in daily operations when outnumbered 10 to 1 or more, I can see any sensible person avoiding that.

A dead American hero…

YouTube - Veterans Today -

Marines didn’t have that option, our leadership was delusional and kept imagining they were in a John Wayne movie, one they saw at a movie theatre.  As for the war, most never really saw much of it if any.  It was a “medal” thing.  The more medals, the less fighting.  Have a real soldier explain that to you some time.

As for Vietnam, some realities:

  • New guys suffered, even after extensive and horrific Marine training because no human could handle the insane heat, the lack of sleep, no food or water, eating decades old canned goods and a ‘target rich environment’
  • Those who made it became wary, tough, paranoid and trained beyond any fighters in the world.  You can get the idea from the film, Last of the Mohicans with Daniel Day Lewis.  His character was like a real combat trained Marine or the Army equivalent, soldiers who were in the field continually.
  • The military looked on Special Ops people as thieves, bums, black marketeers and con men.  They were right.  This is why I like Special Ops people so much, it is “smarts” that deserves respect.
  • We all knew Vietnam and the War on Terror are and were always nothing more than cons anyway.  Only a friggin moron would brag about fighting terrorism when the real terrorists are, well, we know where they are and it sure isn’t anywhere with alot of Muslims.

After Vietnam, special ops groups were shut down because so many had been involved in drugs, black market and prostitution.  Funding was ended, units disbanded, the idea of special operations discarded as a distraction until the fiasco in Iran during the Carter era.

Little is it admitted that those killed in Iran died at the hands of sabotage meant to rig a presidential election, one of the more than one “October surprise” that put NWO Reagan/Bush into office.

The idea of Special Ops is all from Rambo, Arnie and Norris films.  Rambo hid out in Switzerland, Arnie dodged the draft and Norris was Air Force in Korea, not a combat vet.  Even Jesse Ventura never served a day in Vietnam and I find him likable.

Not 1% of Vietnam was “Special Ops” and, not only was nothing ever accomplished, those things claimed to have been done were all bull.  Talking with “Drake” on Skype, another Vietnam vet, reminding me of the “Bright and Shining Lie.”

We lost an army in Vietnam, combat, poison, PTSD, hate at home, hopelessness.

What makes it all worse is the continual Hollywood fiction about the war, all wars, fiction bull and anti-American disrespect for those who fought and died in senseless wars because, well, we may never know the reason but I was part of it.

I may never be able to explain it but one thing is for sure, none of it involved saving the US from communism and none of it now ever involved bin Laden (Colonel Timothy Osman) and terrorism.

Terror war is all con, drugs, oil, abusive torture, phony nation building projects.

The rise of special forces is based on the needs of the new “outsourced” political armies, the ones that fight religious wars, that guard opium fields, that torture prisoners and that will talk childish and extreme “Talibanesque” politics like freeking morons on cue.

The military of the Vietnam era, drowning in extra IQ points, those of us who survive, look on this “dweebish” behavior as asinine.

For those of us who fought long ago, these are wars we hoped our kids would never have to take part in.

They are our fault because we simply didn’t kill the real enemy, the idiots around us that would lead America into the hellish land of screw-ups we are living in.

We gave America away because the Vietnam generation quit looking, quit listening, quit thinking.

We sacrificed the lives of our kids so we could sit on our rear ends.

What the worst of us were from Vietnam, the ignorant and lazy, I see the same in the rabid and childish video above.

I know how much more I did than any of those moaning above, simply because I am here by luck alone.  I also admit that our entire platoon would have taken the first boat to Sweden to go AWOL given the chance and used to talk about nothing else.

Surviving Vietnam for a Marine in a combat unit was luck only.

Then I remember those who went before, Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima.  I remember spending an evening talking to a Makin Island Marine Raider.

Go to Gettysburg or Shiloh.

As for my own service, I served with heroes but was never one myself.  We considered wounds to all be self inflicted, being shot was considered “failing to duck,” not a reason to whine for a medal and get a free license plate (though I do have one)

We didn’t all love each other but we were a family, we were also the best combat unit I have ever seen or heard of, skills earned through physical suffering, through learning, through training no “fatass school” could ever give.

I think of the kids today, fighting wars where the enemies have mobile phones and vehicles.  I can’t imagine how we could have dealt with that.

Of course, if the Vietnam generation had been men and not sheep there would have been no wars, we would have stopped it because we were supposed to be people who sacrificed for their children, not people who sacrificed their children.

Too many of those who didn’t serve, who ran away, even fled America, the rich in particular, became “Chickenhawks,” suffering from “Romnesia,” those who knew nothing of war, whose children would never see war but those who love seeing others die.

Why do we let them live?  Killing them is probably illegal, certainly not immoral but very much against the law.

Problem is, serving them is also criminal, killing for them is immoral, certainly illegal, more accurately “war crimes.”

This reminds me of an old quote by Leslie Nielsen from the Police Squad films:

“You know, the next time I kill someone, I could be arrested for it?”

That haunts me at times.

I think of Senator Paul Wellstone and his family or Pat Tillman or the USS Liberty and I think of people who deserve killing that we will never be able to avenge because killing those who deserve it is illegal.  I think of Rachel Corrie, America’s “Joan of Arc.”

Murdering us is not.

Today we teach that war is killing “miltants.”  Those are people who don’t like being occupied or invaded or seeing their families killed in drone strikes, don’t like seeing their government handed over to oil companies or who tire of carrying opium paste to American owned heroin processing factories.

Then again, success is in capturing terrorist suspects, bus boys, cab drivers or with Dr. Aafia Siddiqui, the wife of a Boston anesthesiologist visiting her parents with her two children, children now believed murdered at Baghram Air Force Base by American special operations weenies.

Welcome to Amerika.

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Gordon Duff, Senior Editor

Gordon Duff is a Marine combat veteran of the Vietnam War. He is a disabled veteran and has worked on veterans and POW issues for decades.

Gordon is an accredited diplomat and is generally accepted as one of the top global intelligence specialists. He manages the world’s largest private intelligence organization and regularly consults with governments challenged by security issues.

Duff has traveled extensively, is published around the world and is a regular guest on TV and radio in more than “several” countries. He is also a trained chef, wine enthusiast, avid motorcyclist and gunsmith specializing in historical weapons and restoration. Business experience and interests are in energy and defense technology.

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  1. I must mention Army Special Forces – the ones who remained with their counterparts. Good men.

    I am, however amazed by the great number of guys who served in force recon (I never did – might of saw one once), special forces, air commandos and seals. Most of drove trucks, toted stuff from one area to another, filled sandbages by the infitnite number, went on patrol (usually one many times two a 24 hour cycle), and did what we were told to do.

    G describes USMC training correctly. It was unreal and we couldn’t quit like recruits can today. Couldn’t handle boot and the Corps had something worse.

    Remember too folks – we stayed in the bush, field, fire base, line, trench, bunker, on some stupid hill or mountain top and did not go back to the “rear” after every mission. Nope – got to stay day after day.

    Heard there are about 800,000 of us RVN vets hanging around. Soon, we’ll all be gone and the next generation of cannon fodder will repeat the cycle. Welcome aboard young guys (and girls too). Too bad none of the D.C. group kids will get TBI or walk point in thier sleep every night.

    SEALS, they got a mission, just like the 88mike and 11bravo. I never was one of “The best of the best of the best” the elite. Just an ole man liven with it.

    Never gonna change folks. Bet Mitt;s sons don’t make it to the next cannon fodder event. Any takers?

    Dale R. Suiter
    but never a recon marine, paratrooper (couldn’t jump out of airplanes, afraid to do so) and never went to SEAL schoo. Did climb Mount Mother —– at Pendleton once upon a time.

  2. Why do we let them live? Killing them is probably illegal, certainly not immoral but very much against the law.

    Problem is, serving them is also criminal, killing for them is immoral, certainly illegal, more accurately “war crimes.”

    This reminds me of an old quote by Leslie Nielsen from the Police Squad films:

    “You know, the next time I kill someone, I could be arrested for it?”

    That haunts me at times.

    The biggest bunch of thieves, liars, criminals and murderers that exist on the face of the planet are in the halls of government and the courts. Cut off the snake’s head and the rest can’t bite you.

  3. I thought Saud, and dubbya reassuring him, like “It’s O.K. I’m the PRESIDENT of all this (though I have a bit of difficulty believing it myself sometimes, but I AM!).

    I thought Saud looked/looks a bit uneasy.

  4. When you look at that pic of ‘dubya’ and ‘saud’, which one is having more of ‘culture-shock moment ?’

  5. @ Anthony H

    I have visited your site that you keep SPAM-ing VT with, and I see no solutions there.

    “No, please don’t kill them: it puts them out of their misery too quickly; it would be an act of mercy.

    Instead, make them, and their principles, accountable for what they have done. This means a myriad of war crimes trials to make them provide restitution to their victims.”

    No trials are possible, because this country is owned.

    With the “Citizens United” decision of the Supreme Court, the uber wealthy can now legally buy elections — anonymously.

    TV ads, featuring Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, are now running in three Florida cities where there are large numbers of retired Jews. That’s right — the head of the Jewish state is telling US Jews whom to elect as the US President.

    The very idea that the head of a foreign government would intrude himself into the US election is an out-and-out abomination, and there’s nothing that we can legally do about it.

    All three branches of the US government are owned by Israel, and there is no possible non-violent resolution for this situation.

  6. Duff:
    This is true what you wrote. This has been going on since time immemorial but that does not make it right. Roman Soldiers also fought for The Empire. The Empire today is similar. The G.O.D. Principal (Gun Oil Dope) runs the show. It is an Empire. How would you fight Caesar? Our soldiers are professionals and serve. It is an Empire but I would not call our Soldiers Criminals. It has always been a mixed bag of good/bad/plus society and human nature. We still like our Military and as a CPT in the Army I see all sides. I just do not damn our soldiers and to dismantle the Empire….good luck. It is not going away.

  7. Green,
    I don’t know what will happen. Truth to tell, I’m completely amazed the shitstem has held together this long. I do know this tiny bit-thanks to places like VT, the top dogs are not unknown anymore. This means they are included in the target rich environment, just like it was 200+ years ago. When we talk about target rich environments, we talk about high value targets first, and the firkers in charge are as high value as it gets. This doesn’t mean we let the Israeli snipers get away with a little beating, either, but it has to mean that those who sacrifice us willingly no longer have their secure bye. If it doesn’t mean this then we might as well dig our shallow graves, eject our magazines, fix bayonets, and drive that rifle into the dirt as our cold headstones.
    The way it has worked for a long time is to break all organization once one leaves the contract of government killer. Left alone, with no support, individuals are easily sacrificed by the chickenshit police state. This is done all the time. Look at the occupy kids, marginalized, brutalized, smeared. Good kids, forked by the perverts.
    We need to learn from our enemies, Green. The forking cartels are organized. No, no honest Joe/Jane can compete with their government support-like “fast and furious”. Gee, wouldn’t it be nice if the government would arm honest people for once, like they did over 200 years ago? HAH!
    If we learn this simple lesson we have found a key to survival. No place for individual sacrifice here. Individual sacrifice is as Duff says, self inflicted G-D wounds.

  8. Rereading what I wrote, gotta say I wasn’t disparaging Darin. I admire him and his work (and so, I think, did Spacey who made the film.) Was trying to explore the meaning of the word ‘hero.’ I don’t even object to or disagree with him being called a hero, I just can’t figure out with words, what a hero IS.

    Seems to have to do with human dignity.

    I’ve been noticing recently, the people who walk to work or to take care of business and support their family, because they don’t have other transportation. People struggling to get a small honest business going to support themselves and family. I see heroism in that. Just getting up and putting one foot in front of the other while so much seems to be moving backwards.

    To comprehend a soldier returning badly wounded from battle and coping with today’s insane world is beyond my ability. I thank God some can do it, and I curse the evil-doers who put people into insane death situations for profit.

    Come to think of it, maybe far better for a society to respect human dignity than ‘heroism.’

  9. Gordon, you wrote, “I think of Senator Paul Wellstone and his family or Pat Tillman or the USS Liberty and I think of people who deserve killing that we will never be able to avenge because killing those who deserve it is illegal. I think of Rachel Corrie, America’s “Joan of Arc.””
    No, please don’t kill them: it puts them out of their misery too quickly; it would be an act of mercy.

    Instead, make them, and their principles, accountable for what they have done. This means a myriad of war crimes trials to make them provide restitution to their victims.

    But, we all should know that every forum in which such prosecutions could take place is corrupted beyond remedy.

    If we are to have justice, we have to learn lessons of American founders. Here is an introduction (

    It won’t be easy, it won’t be quick; but as these lessons are learned, our aim will be certain.

  10. Oh…I have rushed into a burning building and pulled people out, once jumped into a flooded river and pulled someone out who later died (Medal of Valor for that)….and other things.

    Bobby Darin wrote that song.

    it makes him a hero and me someone who tends to do very risky things out of an overdeveloped sense of guilt.

    (a nasty truth thingie)

  11. Consider this an unsolicited addendum, rather than any sort of criticism of your article G.

    I learned it all in a year. What was honorable, what was dishonorable, noble and ignoble; and it doesn’t jive with the hive, idea that is, just as fore-said.

    Nam taught me all about “It All”, though I could hardly articulate it then; and, defining it to my understanding is still an ongoing work in progress.

    Coming home from Bien Hoa; here, in “The World”, they couldn’t care less what was going on in D.C., or anywhere else on the planet, especially in the high canopy primaries and paddy of Nam. TV land was in high demand; though, I couldn’t see anything to “Laugh In” about.

    I don’t know what to call that ‘head space’ that pervades when first ‘coming home’. It didn’t take long before I woke up to the fact that something, and some- ones had me in their sights here at home. The undercurrent began to rise, the whispers, and innuendos. I was being marginalized. It escalated to stigmatized, and finally ostracized. The VFW and American Legion were leading the assault, and middle America were all ‘on board’. Needless to say, I didn’t care much for my ‘designated slot’ in American society.

    Coming home from Bien Hoa; here, in “The World”, they couldn’t care less what was going on in D.C., or anywhere else on the planet, especially in the high canopy primaries and paddy of Nam. TV land was in high demand; though, I couldn’t see anything to “Laugh In” about.

    Nam taught me all about “It All”, though I could hardly articulate it then; and, defining it to my understanding is still an ongoing work in progress…. Right wing fanaticism was peeking, remember Kent State? The 82nd was rolling through Detroit.

    Yeah, the government lies of patriotism, and defending America. America, it surely had been re-defined by me. It was hard to sort it all out at times, the safest mental habitat being “Lost In Space” for me back then.

    But, occasionally one of the great Motown prophets, whose voices were a constant background, and one of the few reference points to any sanity in Nam would strike a responsive cord on the cognitive tambourine, like this – “What’s Going On” and I wouldn’t feel so ‘all alone’ then.

    Study the back story, at least beginning with the French acquisition of Indochina. though the indefatigable Vietnamese spirit goes back much farther. It’s healing. (that’s just friendly advice to any one still trying to sort it out)

    When ‘Tricky Dick Nixon’ the very same black bag agent that traveled to Saigon to broker the American dirty deal with the Diem Regime under Ike, finally ended it as President ( can’t overlook Kissinger in here) my unit’s ” Colors ” were formally retired.

    They were re-activated in ” preparation” for ‘The Global War on Terror” and home based out of Vincenz Italy. They’ve since, then seen continuous action both in Iraq and Afghanistan ( cue – Restrepo )

    I couldn’t tell it all, I couldn’t even begin to try. Suffice it say, I’ve observed it all, form inside my own personal Karma.

    I met a soldier from the 25th Infantry Division in Hawaii back in around 2003. We talked some, and eventually he confided that his Company spent their time in Afghanistan guarding the Opium fields from Taliban destruction.

    I know what it was like for me, after waking up to the American Myth and coming home. It staggers me, what it must be like for those who wake up in combat, realize the scam that was pulled, and then come home to shit like this – and worse,, a lot worse !

    I’m not all that smart, but I am honest, and especially with myself. America, is one of those, ‘my country, right or wrong places’, for the most part. It’s one of those “love it leave it” joints.

    I’ve been ……. LONG GONE –

  12. Bobby Darin, a hero? An American hero?

    Did he ever rush into a burning building and pull someone out, saving a life? Whatever the word ‘hero’ means, it must be about something like that, saving a life at the risk of one’s own. (Why would anyone do such a thing?)

    Hero or not, he had courage. Standing up in front of a bunch of strangers and singing, and playing the guitar at the same time you are singing and looking at all those faces looking at you… and committing to doing that over and over and over again as being what you have decided to do with your life and stand for… that might take some courage. Pete Seeger, 1963

    Mr. Seeger isn’t some asshat who stands on the stage doing “Look at me” like those things we call celebrities. Neither is Mr. Kevin Spacey who wrote, produced and directed a biographical film about Bobby Darrin. Spacey played the lead role and used his own voice for the songs.

    Spacey only does Hollywood now to get money to support the work he really believes in, the Old Vic Theatre in London, unpaid, where he is artistic director and actor. He helps pull a few people from the fire of our nowadays world, as I think is made clear in the video interview. Spacey, interviewed.

  13. This element in the rear guard action to cover the acts of deception completed by 9/11 has many facets.

    None of those facets have any truth and by their own conflicting accounts, put them into a special league of their own.

    Notwithstanding their abject insult to truth and logic, I have detailed some of the highlights of these confused Psy-Op’s in a special section in the link below to be later studied at the University level in a course on APPLIED DECEIT 101.

    The current U.S.Navy Seal/ Bin Laden tales, as well the entire range of the 9/11 deceptions is found here;


  14. If I correctly understand your meaning of “get together,” then I regard this as a mistake. Any organization will be infiltrated toot sweet by government agents/assets.

    That is, if they didn’t found the groups themselves. The FBI keeps foiling self-created “terrorist plots.”

    It’s going to take autonomous, unaffiliated, well-armed individuals, willing to engage in urban guerilla warfare, to take out “this scum,” one at a time.

  15. Green, you are right on as usual. I truly hope that eventually, realistically, probably soon, we will all of us get together and rid this scum from the gene pool. We were just kids in Viet Nam, we had no idea things could ever get this bad. Just the fact that indefinite detention could ever be accepted in this country still blows my mind. Most, if not all of the chickenhawks, wouldn`t have lasted one day as a combat infantryman in Viet Nam, not necessarily because of the combat, but because of the constant privations that we took for granted, cause we didn`t know any better. We were just “doin our job”.

  16. Sir:
    What a great article. Thanks. and, the October Surprise arranged by Poppy Bush in Paris to put: “.. NWO Reagan/Bush into office” was somewhere in this unsurpassed reality thriller, as I recall reading it ten years ago. I just found it available for free. Folks start reading this book when you have time to finish in in one sitting, like a weekend, because you won’t put it down:

  17. I asked my Uncle Richie ( Rupolo ) USMC what is was like in Vietnam ( as a combat infantryman ) he said, ” I couldn’t really describe it…you just had to be there..” His wife’s ( my aunt ) cousin Louie Popolardo won a Silver Star….said he wasn’t a hero..used to say a hero is a ” slab of meat and lettuce surrounded by bread..” Said he was ” just doin’ my job..”

  18. Green,
    Hasn’t the issue always been the structure of society?
    1776, and the Brits were aghast at the rebel’s targeting of their officer corps. Until this point, officers were immune to anyone drawing a bead on them. I don’t how the rebels managed to pull this one off, but it required breaking with all manner of codes of conduct.
    Current traitors and war criminals today enjoy lofty amounts of protection, adorned with a fawning media, certain that while they send any number of nameless nobodies to die, they will be the exception. And why not think this way? So far, it has been true.
    Look at all the morons who mindlessly hate Muslims because they are told to hate ’em. If you point out to these cretins that catcher’s mitt is a complete crook, they get pissed at you. These same types got mad when Bush2 was fingered for illegal wiretapping. No, they weren’t mad about their prez being a crook, they were mad that someone pointed it out.
    BTW, this is not letting “I can murder any American at will” Obama off the hook, either.
    Honestly, I don’t know how large the population of these idiots is, but as long as you have this mentality in the forefront, they are turning everyone into cannon fodder.
    Even if the legality is there, if the society doesn’t care, how then, to make the change to start shooting those who need shooting?

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