American Church Leaders Challenge Israel and Congress

Christians Step up to the Plate to Legally and Morally Challenge Continued U.S.  Aid to Israel due to Ongoing Human Rights  and Weapons Violations

 

       … by  Jim W. Dean, VT Editor

 

Are the Christians coming to the Rescue? – Finally?

Well the church folks have gotten out if front of everybody else, including the main line veterans orgs, think tanks, political parties, and our own legal community. Hurrah for them as they struck a blow against hypocrisy and the double standard red carpet given to Israel.

No mention in the letter to Congress below about Israel’s huge weapons of mass destruction programs, stockpiles and who they might be a threat to. But VT will do that.

Our declassified Intel has substantiated that Israel always had conventional military superiority over all neighboring countries. The WMD was for offensive purposes only.

Actually we could do a pincer movement on them. Violations of nuclear proliferation also trigger a cancellation of US aid. But that little item is dismissed simply through our not acknowledging that Israeli has had these. Iran should be so lucky.

It will be interesting to see how Congress reacts. Hearings have been called for, but the Congresscritters have honed their skills at putting on show hearings. The Lobby will provide them a special team for the great smoke and mirrors presentation to prove that Israel is on the verge of annihilation.

The WMD people might even walk out the door with more aid…such is the congressional corruption over all things Israel.

The large Presbyterian and Evangelical Lutheran denominations anchored the fifteen church leaders who signed the letter below, with the ever present Quakers, of course, bless their souls. Israel was quiet, deploying their skirmish line of Lobby groups. And what was their tactic? To play the victim of course and trot out the old cliches.

The Jewish Council for Public Affairs (this is cute) claimed that American aid to Israel was not unconditional as we had ‘shared values’ according to JCPA President Rabbi Steve Gutow. I would remind the good Rabbi that we did not use white phosphorus shells on Jewish neighborhoods here after the USS Liberty was attacked. 

And we do not do home demolitions of their dual citizens who engage in Israeli espionage here. Not one home has ever been bulldozed, not even Jonathan Pollards. Torturing Jewish children (for security reasons) has not been made legal by our Supreme Court.

Shared values? I don’t think so. And God help us if we even do as we will not deserve salvation then.

Rabbi Steve Gutow

The Rabbinical Assembly whined that they were not ‘consulted’,  Hebrew for ‘we did not give you our permission to do this’. They claimed the interfaith partnerships were violated as this as all done, heaven forbid, on the eve of Shabat, hinting that only Christian devils could do such a thing.

And worse, ‘Congress was not in session and we are in the middle of a general election campaign’. Oh those evil conniving Christians and their pre-Shabat/election pogrom.

I would ask the Rabbinical authority why they have not showed us how all the Israelis got out of the twin towers alive on 911. Not one died. Will they share the trick with the rest of us, for next (or how much it costs)…for interfaith solidarity?

They even whine ‘breach of trust’ by the Christians. As I was reading I was expecting claims of a Neo-holocaust in the works, but alas they did not go that far, yet.

But the best was the American Jewish Committee who was outraged that such a move would be taken when we were all staring down the barrel of Iran’s alleged nuclear gun, but one with nothing in the chamber, and having that dark cloud hanging over the whole world.  We call his ‘hype city’ in the Intel world.

The AJC used the word ‘attack’, yes…Rabbi Noam Marans, …”Christian leaders have chosen to mount another political attack on Israel.”  And he went further.

“When religious liberty and safety of Christians across the Middle East are threatened by the repercussions of the Arab Spring, these Christian leaders have chosen to initiate a polemic against Israel, a country that protects religious freedom and expression for Christians, Muslims and others.”

Yeshivas in Israel teach intense hatred for Christianity. Orthodox Jews spit when they pass a Christian cemetery and young students spit on the crosses of priests in public to show their contempt. Welcome to interfaith dialogue.

Good Gosh Rabbi, when was the last time you have heard of an American priest or pastor spitting on a Rabbi, having been taught to so such at the seminary?

Have you folks sponsored legislation in Israel to make it a hate crime for Rabbis there to spit on priests? I did not think so.

And how many nukes do the Arab Spring people have, and chemical and bio-weapons, and tanks, and F-16’s? How many cruise missile armed submarines to they have, how many Congressional votes in their pocket, and espionage assets in the Pentagon and National Security Council?

Forgive me Rabbi but I don’t buy the crocodile tears. We have all seen them too many times before.  More and more Americans are deeming you militant Israeli supporters a national security threat.

Many in our Intelligence community do, also. And they are working away at tearing down the protection racket you have set up here to prevent prosecutions. America will ‘not be removed from the sands of time’ by a bunch of disloyal dual citizens with only one loyalty.

But enough of me…time for the good Christians to speak, the ones with no nukes or death squads and only vote in one country’s elections. It will be a nice change of pace.

Dear Christian Zionists, read this and weep…and may you repent your sins. The best way to do that is redirecting your tithes to taking down the monster you have been supporting with the billions in contributions you have been sending to Israel. They have been used to disenfranchise the remaining Christians there. And may God have mercy on your souls for that.

 ________________________

Dear Member of Congress,

We write to you as Christian leaders representing U.S. churches and religious organizations committed to seeking a just peace for Israelis and Palestinians. Our organizations have been deeply involved in this pursuit for decades, inspired by the call and promise of Jesus Christ who said, “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.”

In response to our Christian call to be peacemakers, we have worked for decades to support both Israelis and Palestinians in their desire to live in peace and well-being. We have worked alongside our Palestinian Christian sisters and brothers to help build a peaceful and resilient Palestinian civil society by supporting hospitals, schools, clinics, and social service agencies.

These ministries include cooperative efforts with Israelis and Palestinians as well as with Jews, Muslims, and other neighbors here in the United States. Through our presence in the region, and regular visits to our partners there, we see first-hand the impacts of the conflict on both Palestinians and Israelis and hear from them directly about the reality of their lives.

Through this direct experience we have witnessed the pain and suffering of Israelis as a result of Palestinian actions and of Palestinians as a result of Israeli actions. In addition to the horror and loss of life from rocket attacks from Gaza and past suicide bombings, we have witnessed the broad impact that a sense of insecurity and fear has had on Israeli society.

We have also witnessed widespread Israeli human rights violations committed against Palestinians, including killing of civilians, home demolitions and forced displacement, and restrictions on Palestinian movement, among others.

We recognize that each party—Israeli and Palestinian—bears responsibilities for its actions and we therefore continue to stand against all violence regardless of its source. Our stand against violence is complemented by our commitment to the rights of all Israelis, as well as all Palestinians, to live in peace and security.

It is this experience and these commitments that lead us to write to you today to express our grave concern about the deteriorating conditions in Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories which threaten to lead the region further away from the realization of a just peace.

Unfortunately, unconditional U.S. military assistance to Israel has contributed to this deterioration, sustaining the conflict and undermining the long-term security interests of both Israelis and Palestinians. This is made clear in the most recent 2011 State Department Country Report on Human Rights Practices covering Israel and the Occupied Territories (1), which details widespread Israeli human rights violations committed against Palestinian civilians, many of which involve the misuse of U.S.-supplied weapons.

Accordingly, we urge an immediate investigation into possible violations by Israel of the U.S. Foreign Assistance Act and the U.S. Arms Export Control Act which respectively prohibit assistance to any country which engages in a consistent pattern of human rights violations and limit the use of U.S. weapons (2) to “internal security” or “legitimate self-defense.” (3) More broadly, we urge Congress to undertake careful scrutiny to ensure that our aid is not supporting actions by the government of Israel that undermine prospects for peace. We urge Congress to hold hearings to examine Israel’s compliance, and we request regular reporting on compliance and the withholding of military aid for non-compliance.

Examples of specific, systematic human rights violations related to U.S. military support are included as an annex to this letter.

In addition to specific rights violations, we see a troubling and consistent pattern of disregard by the government of Israel for U.S. policies that support a just and lasting peace. Specifically, repeated demands by the U.S. government that Israel halt all settlement activity have been ignored. Since 1967, every U.S. administration has decried Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories as obstacles to peace.

Despite this stance, Israel continues to expand its settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, claiming territory that under international law and U.S. policy should belong to a future Palestinian state. The Oslo peace process, which began in 1993, was publicly promoted as leading Israelis and Palestinians to a just peace based on a two-state solution.

Instead, since 1993, the number of Israeli settlers in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, has more than doubled. Rights violations resulting from Israeli settlement activity include separate and unequal legal systems for Palestinians and settlers, confiscation of Palestinian land and natural resources for the benefit of settlers, and violence by settlers against Palestinians.

According to the Israeli human rights group B’Tselem and the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, there has been a dramatic rise in settler attacks against Palestinians this year (4). They report that these attacks are often intended to drive Palestinians from areas the settlers wish to take over, and that Israeli authorities have failed to take significant action to stop the violence or hold the perpetrators accountable. We believe that these actions directly undermine peace efforts and threaten, rather than support, Israel’s long-term security interests.

We want to be clear that we recognize that Israel faces real security threats and that it has both a right and a duty to protect both the state and its citizens. However, the measures that it uses to protect itself and its citizens, as in the case with any other nation, must conform to international humanitarian and human rights law.

As Christian leaders in the United States, it is our moral responsibility to question the continuation of unconditional U.S. financial assistance to the government of Israel. Realizing a just and lasting peace will require this accountability, as continued U.S. military assistance to Israel — offered without conditions or accountability — will only serve to sustain the status quo and Israel’s military occupation of the Palestinian territories.

We request, therefore, that Congress hold Israel accountable to these standards by making the disbursement of U.S. military assistance to Israel contingent on the Israeli government’s compliance with applicable U.S. laws and policies. As Israel is the single largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid since World War II, it is especially critical for Israel to comply with the specific U.S. laws that regulate the use of U.S.-supplied weapons.

We also encourage Congress to support inclusive, comprehensive, and robust regional diplomacy to secure a just and lasting peace that will benefit Israelis, Palestinians, and all the peoples of the region, and the world.

With respect and gratitude, we offer you our prayers.

Sincerely,

God Bless those signing this letter for washing some of the shame of Christian Zionism off the cross

Rev. Gradye Parsons
Stated Clerk of the General Assembly
Presbyterian Church (USA)Mark S. Hanson
Presiding Bishop
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America

Bishop Rosemarie Wenner
President, Council of Bishops
United Methodist Church

Peg Birk
Transitional General Secretary
National Council of Churches USA

Shan Cretin
General Secretary
American Friends Service Committee

J Ron Byler
Executive Director
Mennonite Central Committee U.S.

Alexander Patico
North American Secretary
Orthodox Peace Fellowship

Diane Randall
Executive Secretary
Friends Committee on National Legislation

Dr. A. Roy Medley
General Secretary
American Baptist Churches, U.S.A.

Christianity Under Fire – And Firing Back Finally

Rev. Geoffrey A. Black
General Minister and President
United Church of Christ

Rev. Dr. Sharon E. Watkins
General Minister and President
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)

Rev. Julia Brown Karimu
President, Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), Division of Overseas Ministries
Co-Executive, Global Ministries (UCC and Disciples)

Rev. Dr. James A. Moos
Executive Minister, United Church of Christ, Wider Church Ministries
Co-Executive, Global Ministries (UCC and Disciples)

Kathy McKneely
Acting Director
Maryknoll Office for Global Concerns

Eli S. McCarthy, PhD
Justice and Peace Director
Conference of Major Superiors of Men (CMSM)

________________________________

Examples of specific, systematic human rights violations related to U.S. military support:

• Killings of civilians – At least 2,969 Palestinian civilians uninvolved in hostilities were killed by the Israeli military between December 29, 2000 and December 31, 2009. This includes at least 1,128 children under the age of 18.5 Many of these deaths are connected to weaponry the U.S. underwrites.

• Suppression of legitimate political expression and protest – U.S.-supplied tear gas has been used by Israel to systematically suppress political protests and dissent in the occupied Palestinian territories. This has led to the deaths of at least 5 Palestinians and the grave injury of many others, including two U.S. citizens.

• Home demolitions and forced displacement – According to the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions, approximately 24,813 Palestinian homes in the occupied Palestinian territories have been destroyed since 1967. House demolitions in the West Bank in 2011 forcibly displaced nearly 1,100 Palestinians (over half of them children) from their homes, over 80% more than in 2010, according to the United Nations (UN) Office of the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (6).

• Use of prohibited weaponry in densely populated civilian areas – Israel has used both white phosphorus and flechette shells in Gaza and Lebanon in violation of international humanitarian law. During operation cast lead white phosphorus shells were fired against civilian targets including a UN compound, two hospitals, and private residences causing civilian deaths and injuries. Flechette shells have also been used repeatedly in Gaza since 2001, causing significant civilian deaths and casualties (7).

• Restricting Palestinian movement – Israeli-only roads and more than 500 roadblocks and checkpoints carve up the West Bank, making travel for Palestinians arduously slow or impossible (8). The Wall constructed by Israel in the West Bank deviates considerably from the 1967 lines, confiscating occupied Palestinian territory and water in the process, and severely restricting Palestinian movement. Since 2007 Israel has also maintained a comprehensive blockade on Gaza, restricting not only the movement of Palestinians into and out of Gaza, but also restricting the import and export of goods. The UN and International Committee of the Red Cross have both concluded that this blockade amounts to collective punishment (9), in contravention of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

___________________________________

1 http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/190656.pdf

2 Weapons in this instance include “crowd control” items such as tear gas. The Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2012 (P.L. 112-74) which is included in the US Foreign Military Financing regulations stipulates that “not later than 90 days after enactment of this act and 6 months thereafter, the Secretary of State shall submit a report to the Committees on Appropriations detailing any crowd control items, including tear gas, made available with appropriated funds or through export licenses to foreign security forces that the Secretary of State has credible information have repeatedly used excessive force to repress peaceful, lawful, and organized dissent.”
3 While this letter focuses on US-Israel relations and the Israel-Palestine conflict, these are laws that we believe should be enforced in all instances regardless of location. All allegations regarding the misuse of US supplied arms should be investigated.
4 http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/07/11/v-print/155813/report-violence-against-palestinians.html For more information see also: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/lambs-to-the-settlers-slaughter-screaming-and-unheard.premium-1.455937
5 Details available at http://www.weaponstoisrael.org/article.php?id=2940 and through original date from B’Tselem at www.btselem.org/statistics.
6 http://www.unocha.org/annualreport/2011/pse
7 http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/israeli-army-used-flechettes-against-gaza-civilians-20090127
8 http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_MovementandAccess_FactSheet_September_2011.pdf
9 http://www.ochaopt.org/gazablockade/

__________________________________



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48 Responses to "American Church Leaders Challenge Israel and Congress"

  1. LC  October 15, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    Henry FORD woke up with this website and decided to throw in his masterpiece as Ford’s contribution:
    http://www.biblestudysite.com/intjewford.htm

  2. ricohands  October 13, 2012 at 4:50 am

    Well said even though purchasing land in Palestine (5.5% of it) does not mean you can set up a state on that land or there would be Jewish states dotted all over the world.

  3. Excalibur  October 13, 2012 at 3:28 am

    Have a look at the site below – and scroll down the LEFT hand side margin to the bottom – where you will see the word ‘Appendix’. Then click on the word ‘Appendix’.

    http://www.catholicvoice.co.uk/pinay/

    It carefully records and lists all the individuals who took over Russia and it’s government in 1917 – after the jewish bolshevik coup d’etat. Those individuals then ordered the massed killing of 20 MILLION Russians who refused to renounce Christianity and ‘embrace’ their form of atheism. Don’t expect any less from the new breed now infecting and conquering the US government offices.

    Each individual has been given their origin and religious denomination. I will also post this on Jimmie Dean’s article about the Christian Leaders criticizing the israel entity.

  4. WisdomPrevails  October 12, 2012 at 4:44 pm

    It is interesting that The Qur’an talks about the Bani Isra-eel or Children of Israel/Jacob. “O Children of Israel…” But the word Jew/yahudi is also used. Perhaps to show the difference between the two.
    According to Wikipedia The Quran makes forty-three specific references to “Bani Isrāʾīl” (meaning the Children Israel)

    ” The Arabic term yahud, denoting Jews, and “yahudi” occur eleven times and the verbal form hāda (meaning “to be a Jew/Jewish”) occurs ten times. According to Khalid Durán, the negative passages use Yahūd, while the positive references speak mainly of the Banī Isrā’īl. ”

    “Say, “O People of the Scripture, do not exceed limits in your religion beyond the truth and do not follow the inclinations of a people who had gone astray before and misled many and have strayed from the soundness of the way.”
    Cursed were those who disbelieved among the Children of Israel by the tongue of David and of Jesus, the son of Mary. That was because they disobeyed and [habitually] transgressed.
    They used not to prevent one another from wrongdoing that they did. How wretched was that which they were doing.” The Glorious Qur’an, The Table Spread, Chapter 5: verses 77-79

  5. Worker Bee  October 12, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    “We write to you as Christian leaders representing U.S. churches and religious organizations committed to seeking a just peace for Israelis and Palestinians.”

    A just peace would be giving back the Palestinians all the land taken by force (i.e. all land not legally purchased by Jews under the Ottoman Empire and British Mandate). The Ashkenazi Jews can live in enclaves in those areas, or go back to their homelands in Azerbaijan/Georgia. The Arab Jews will likely find themselves happier than they are now.

  6. ricohands  October 12, 2012 at 9:17 am

    Thanks for that Tyron

  7. Excalibur  October 12, 2012 at 5:14 am

    Agreed Bill. The Catholic Church became out of favour with the judaic monsters many years back – since when the mainstream media has been tasked with a campaign of attacking and smearing the Holy Church in every way it can. Believe it or not jews hate the Roman Catholic Church so much that they have even sent operatives to enter the Church as priests and posing as Christians. Once inside they can cause havoc and bring misdirection and disrepute.

    This example of single minded hatred was done once before during the reign of Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain – and was the real reason for the ‘Spanish Inquisition’ needed to root them out.

  8. Excalibur  October 12, 2012 at 5:05 am

    Jim – I somehow feel that this short youtube clip needs to be in here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=dDZVxbrW7Ow

    Lets stay positive – God Bless to all.

  9. eric  October 12, 2012 at 1:31 am

    This article has restored my faith in the christian churches in USA.
    If only the so called christian churches in Europe would follow their example and pin the blame for decades of
    killings and lies where it belongs, on the shoulders of the Zionists.

  10. judgment  October 11, 2012 at 10:08 pm

    Thank you J.W. Dean. I run into something that sounds like Bush October surprise with the Evangelists.
    This being S. California we have many Latino. most Catholics, but I also keep running into Latino workers that belong to cult like churches with a strong Evangelical drive. As several have been investigated as Cult like with money involved the member work hard on seniors. Any way, of interest to me is when I found out that they are strongly anti-Obama voting for Romney. I am talking about Catholic Latino. Checking this out. The number of these “churches” is too high for Latino community.

  11. Charlotte NC Bill  October 11, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    Bp Richard Williamson, SSPX doesn’t need to be on their list….he’s been saying the above and more for the last 40 years….

  12. Jim W. Dean  October 11, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Thanks for digging this up…what makes the comment sections worth the time and effort.

  13. ricohands  October 11, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    The have hijacked Christianity the way they have hijacked Judaism but thankfully not as intensely. Most civilized sensible people can see through these hucksters MO.

  14. ricohands  October 11, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    liberty: One does not need to be taught, one just does not need to be gullible fool who is easily scammed and cannot think for oneself.

  15. ricohands  October 11, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    Encouraging sign and about time.

  16. Cold Wind  October 11, 2012 at 9:51 am

    Fascinating in that I do not see one Catholic Bishop’s name on this list. Is it that bad in the Catholic Church these days?

  17. DaveE  October 11, 2012 at 9:29 am

    So many “lefties” I know are starting to realize the Democrats have been infiltrated, too, similar to what was happening toward the end of the Bush regime when real conservatives were starting to stand up to the neocons that had taken over the GOP.

    Now many are realizing that the neocons on the right and the Bolshevik “socialists” on the left are the SAME people, with the same agenda.

    The “tipping point” is close, I think. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out in the next few months, since so many know who controls both “candidates” and that they’re both completely compromised.

  18. DaveE  October 11, 2012 at 9:15 am

    Thanks, I think the details of Israel’s crimes made the letter much stronger and I wanted to make sure I wasn’t getting too excited for naught…….

  19. Jim W. Dean  October 11, 2012 at 7:49 am

    “The genuine, grass-roots populist so-called ” left of center” types and the genuinely populist “right of center ” types have more in common than they have real differences;”

    Amen here. As I so often try to tell both sides is that the road to victory is not in defeating the Left or the Right, as that game us just a smart diversion for the swindler kings now. We will never be able to marshal the manpower resources to clean the real bad guys out without enough folks on the Left and the Right joining forces.

    When that happens the bad guys will start killing us as that will be their last defense, to knock off the opposition leadership. They have plants and infiltrators on both sides, sleepers even, ready to be activated when any leadership begins to emerge with a good plan to take the bad guys out.

    If you think I am kidding, cross your fingers and hope that we figure out a way to get some prosecutions going, and seem how many bodies they begin dropping to discourage the effort. To be ready we just have to make sure that we have replacement leadership ready to do.

    The more people the bad guys kill, the more they will reveal themselves and the easier it will be to pull in the Johny come latelies. The lights in people’s heads come on at different stages of the game. You all have heard of the term ‘tipping point’. That is the goal, to get to the time where when they make one more mistake, that triggers the beginning of the end for them.

  20. Charlotte NC Bill  October 11, 2012 at 7:34 am

    “leftist” “liberal” “conservative” have really become out-dated, almost meaningless terms that do nothing but create arbitrary and false demarcation lines of dissent…

    The genuine, grass-roots populist so-called ” left of center” types and the genuinely populist “right of center ” types have more in common than they have real differences; they both know 9-11 was done by Mossad and it’s agents, assets on the ground and in country and allies in the US…

    They both want the fraudulent magical money machine-the privately owned central bank- dissolved…they’re both against so-called zero tariff “free” trade…they both think allowing millions of HI-B visa people into the country when so many skilled americans are out of work is crazy…

    The Establishment “left” and “right” are joined on all of the above issues…maintaining the fantastical version of 9-11…”free” trade…no mention of the Fed…directing dissent to controlled groups and individuals…etc..open borders…etc..

  21. Jim W. Dean  October 11, 2012 at 7:30 am

    “come on. —- and these groups do not represent the vast majority of sincere Christians. ”

    A valid point, but we don’t apologize for not being in control of all of these Christian groups. Editorially I made the comment early in the article that the Presbyterians and Lutherans were the main anchor groups, and a salute to the Quakers who for hours per person pushing for peace beat everybody else.

    It is not an uncommon thing for when progress is made for some to point out that ‘well, you have not won yet’. No sh_t !!! Ah…we know that. All we are doing is keeping folks abreast of new developments so they can think about where to pitch in.

    For example, how do you think all of these groups would feel to start getting lots of thank you letters in? Or, would you send them a ‘you’re just wasting your time, they are too powerful, it’s too late in the game, save yourself letter’?

    I am trying to liaison with these folks to explore how we might help each other. Welcome to the trenches. This is how it is done, building as you go, getting stronger, so hopefully when you have an opening to make a big move you have the juice to do it.

    Fighting when you are understrength is something we have personal experience with here. When Gordon was doing constant ten day patrols in Nam the platoons were down to six, sometimes just five men. When the VC found out how small they were, they simply started hunting them with two dozen man teams.

    The only way the patrolling Marines survived, the 60% that did, was being able to out run them. When the VC got onto their tails our guys could double time for 20 minutes in the heat, something the VC could not do. That allowed them to get ahead of the VC and J-hook around to set up an ambush for them, where they got shot to pieces. Hot pursuit became not too hot after a while.

    When the VC switched to hunting them at night, the Marines used the balls to the wall tactic of holding fire until they were within rifle length before firing. Why? Because they could shoot them all quickly with the minimum about of bullets being used as running out of ammo on a ten day patrol was a death sentence.

    So we try to work smart by using our time as best we can. Especially for us older folks, our time is out ammo, and we know we have a limited supply.

  22. Jim W. Dean  October 11, 2012 at 7:12 am

    Remember, This is a comment section, and not a chat room. Sometimes stuff flows through like chat room speed, but that is just because several people are online and getting emails of comments coming in. But when it gets bed time here on the East Coast…West Coast folks sometimes forget the time zone thing.

    Overall though, it works pretty well. We had to monitor because the spam was huge, 5000 a day with the filters getting 90%, leaving 500 for hand removal. Gordon use to spend three hours a day just on comments, which I eventually convinced him was a huge waste of his time, and reducing that to one hour would create two hours for radio and TV interviews. The cross promotion we have been getting for VT from that two hours has been fabulous.

  23. DaveE  October 11, 2012 at 5:09 am

    This “good Jews – bad Jews” or “good zionists – bad zionists” or “good Christians – bad Christians” argument if completely irrelevant.

    Israel is 100 percent stolen property, period. Their tactics have been many but the outcome is always the same, the gradual theft of Palestine and the slaughter or expulsion of its rightful inhabitants.

    Many so-called “Christians” are confused by basic moral concepts (thou salt not steal, thou shalt not kill, etc.) in their lust to defend the Old Testament, which is irreconcilable with the teachings of Christ, or common sense and decency for that matter.

    Get over it and admit you were played for fools. If you don’t, the Jews will continue to use and abuse you as well as Christ and his teachings. The sadistic lowlife enjoy it.

  24. Excalibur  October 11, 2012 at 2:15 am

    Good will always conquer evil. Pray for the Church leaders involved – to give them fortitude and strength – and so that they can galvanize themselves with grace and the bravery needed to be instruments of God’s will on Earth.

    The Christian zionist leadership is a wicked abomination – designed to mislead and misdirect those that are easily beguiled. You only need to repeat the prayer that Christ gave us – the ‘OUR FATHER’ prayer in it’s proper form – to understand this.

  25. duay khwaam nap theuu  October 11, 2012 at 12:19 am

    Please remember that whoever it is, his or her salary is ZERO – ZILTCH – NADA – RIEN.

    Go start your own blog.. Then you can be sure it’s done your way.

    Yes, it is annoying, but grownups try to deal with it.

  26. liberty1776  October 10, 2012 at 11:28 pm

    unfortunately this is not a big deal because just a cursory glance at these ‘Christian leaders’ shows they are mostly leftist, liberal ‘denominations’ (I mean, ‘National Council of Churches?’ come on. —- and these groups do not represent the vast majority of sincere Christians.

    and here is something VT & readers of VT NEED to understand without prejudice, and that is that MOST Bible-believing, God-fearing Christians are ALWAYS going to have a soft spot in their heart for Biblical Israel, and I would say that 90% of those Christians DO NOT KNOW the real difference between secular zionists and the normal everyday Jews that make up your average Israeli household. But those of us who love Jesus Christ and the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob (Father, Son & Holy Spirit) – we also love Israel. But again, we love Biblical Israel, the sons & daughters of Abraham, etc. But that, at least for ME, is NO endorsement AT ALL for these murdering secular zionist-mossad types who have wrought so much blood & killing & terror, etc.

    So therein you have a tremendous predicament. God-fearing, Biblical Christians in America NEED to be taught the difference between ‘Biblical’ Israel and the zionist killers.

  27. truthman  October 10, 2012 at 10:07 pm

    Nice, JD! Refreshing to feel everyone wiping the “sleep” out ‘ta their eyes. The day of reckoning is nigh, whether you’re a believer or a deceiver. In either case, you’ve done your best, I’m sure. It is all just a game, or something quite like one, but apologies wont bring your dead children back, unfortunately. We do get what we ask for and we ARE what we eat. It probably won’t be that bad. Unless, that is, you eat lots and lots of dead meat. You don’t, do you? Grin….

  28. Jim W. Dean  October 10, 2012 at 7:57 pm

    Way too broad a statement. There are jerks, hustlers and sell outs the world over.

    During Klaus Barbie’s Nazi trial in France one of the interesting things that he said in his defense against torturing people to find resistance folks, was that they would run ads in the Sunday French paper offering bounties on partisans and resistance helpers, and on Monday the Gestapo headquarters would be mobbed. Many would be just trying to turn in someone they did not like purely for personal reasons.

    There are countless examples.

  29. Jim W. Dean  October 10, 2012 at 7:41 pm

    A question: Is the addendum at the end of your piece (detailing Israeli transgressions of law) part of the original letter or was that a VT addition?

    Everything in the block quotes is the letter. I just added the images. Our usual format is to put unedited outside material in block quotes. Rather than cut the letter in half, I used the whole thing as its an historical document. With a large group like this a lot of work went into the wording so I wanted you to have it all and to interpret however.

  30. duay khwaam nap theuu  October 10, 2012 at 7:32 pm

    On first reading this article here, I searched to see what coverage this letter to Congress was getting so far. Not much… 6 hits

    jta.org/ news/ article/ 2012/ 10/ 09/ 3108806/ religious-leaders-call-on-congress-to-reevaulate-military-aid-to-isra el

    blogs.elca.org/ peacenotwalls/ files/ 2012/ 10/ Military-aid-to-Israel-2012c.pdf

    mondoweiss.net/ 2012/ 10/ roger-waters-says-israels-staggering-record-of-impunity-from-worlds-j udgment-is-due-to-elephant-in-the-room-the-lobby.html

    standfirminfaith.com/?/sf/page/29520

    thenakedfacts .blogspot.com

    niqnaq .wordpress.com

    ———————————–

    That’s it. New York Times, CNN etc. must have a meeting or wait for the memo or something.

    Meanwhile…

    Peter Hansen formerly the head of the UN Works and Relief Agency:
    The peace process that he once believed could bring justice– “I can only think of it as a cruel joke.” It has nothing to do with principle, but simple dealmaking between powers, and the UN has abandoned its own principles, norms and values merely to have a seat at the table.

    As for the huge UN presence in the occupied territories, the aid is a Bandaid on a cancer, and whenever Hansen tried to raise the necessity of addressing underlying political issues with the donor countries, he was told his views were not welcome.

    “I was not supposed to talk about anything except how to get truckloads delivered… The donor countries… like to think they have bought redemption.”

    Roger Waters, a juror for the Russell Tribunal and bassist for Pink Floyd:
    The “elephant in the room” is the unspoken cause of this long and unrelenting pattern of impunity, and that cause is “the Israel and Jewish lobby,” …

  31. Brian  October 10, 2012 at 7:19 pm

    I’m glad they sent the letter it took a little courage, although I don’t think the Israeli controlled congress critters will act upon the letter accept to tell their AIPAC bosses to expect even more money in a show of their unbreakable elegance to their Israeli masters.

    I was sure hoping to see a P.S. By the way we church people know those Israeli scumbags did 911.

  32. Charlotte NC Bill  October 10, 2012 at 7:13 pm

    Bishop Richard Williamson, SSPX is the lone Catholic bishop that has consistantly told the truth about what these people are all about…The Americanist/American exceptionalist-no salvation outside the Republican Party/all I know about the world I get fm Fox “News”-type “catholics” don’t like him of course..Bp DeMallerais and Bp Galleretta, sspx are also very good..Bp Fellay is the weak link in the SSPX…a certain “Grimer Wormtongue” by the name of Max Krah seems to have gotten to him..

  33. michaelalexander  October 10, 2012 at 7:03 pm

    Jim,
    A few of us went to a CZ mega-church here in san antonio last year and sat through an entire sermon from pasture (of shit) Hagee about how God, through revelations, told us that the antichrist is Ahmadinejad and Putin, and in order to fight the antichrist, we have to drop nuclear bombs on them..no joking, he went through a 2 hour lecture, pulling random parts of scripture to justify this argument. He carried on brainwashing thousands of people into believing God wants us to murder millions of innocent people…What would God make of a man like that? Pure Criminal. We’re all anticipating his return home to his brother and father, the late con artist Falwell and his eminence, Lucifer. REAL CHRISTIANS are an oasis in a desert these days. We do our best to unglue people’s minds from that “God said murder everyone else because they’re the antichrist” sort of people. Good to hear Jim.

  34. DaveE  October 10, 2012 at 6:58 pm

    Thanks for the good news, Jim. It’s been a long day dealing with my neighbors who are slightly dumber than asphalt, so it’s good to know that maybe there is some hope that people do awaken, eventually. Made my day.

    A question: Is the addendum at the end of your piece (detailing Israeli transgressions of law) part of the original letter or was that a VT addition?

    Nice work, either way.

  35. Gary Walker  October 10, 2012 at 6:32 pm

    Well, it seems to me that the US public is waking up, although maybe just sleep walking. I don’t know, but I like to keep hope alive. Of course Israel is a rogue state and needs to be taken to the woodshed.
    I can dream can’t I?

    Viva Palestina,
    Infidel

  36. duay khwaam nap theuu  October 10, 2012 at 6:05 pm

    “wounding 171” or 173, actually.

    http://www.usslibertyveterans.org/ — “ON JUNE 8, 1967, while patrolling in international waters in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea, USS Liberty (AGTR-5) was savagely attacked without warning or justification by air and naval forces of the state of Israel. Of a crew of 294 officers and men (including three civilians), the ship suffered thirty four (34) killed in action and one hundred seventy three (173) wounded in action. The ship itself, a Forty Million ($40,000,000) Dollar state of the art signals intelligence (SIGINT) platform, was so badly damaged that it never sailed on an operational mission again and was sold in 1970 for $101,666.66 as scrap. “

  37. Jim W. Dean  October 10, 2012 at 6:02 pm

    We can’t control completely when people can figure this out. We can put material out when they are treading water and not much interested in reading. And then we can catch them after they have been saved.

    You work with the people that are available and try to reduce the learning curve for them. These folks did this when the Catholics didn’t, and the CZs for sure. It’s progress. Another group is forming to take on AIPAC, the Kario folks, criss crossing the country now setting up state orgs. It included ex-AIPAC people..and American Jews that went to the West Bank and were shocked at what they found.

    Netanyahu did more to discredit the Lobby in a month that we have in several years. So as the saying, goes, you never look a gift horse in the mouth, who is not asking for a payday loan, or wanting to take English lessons from your wife or daughter while you are at work.

  38. duay khwaam nap theuu  October 10, 2012 at 5:57 pm

    Shared values?

    SHARED VALUES?

    S H A R E D V A L U E S ? ? ?

    We did not use white phosphorus shells on Jewish neighborhoods here after the USS Liberty was attacked Israeli attacks killing 34 US seamen and wounding 171I.

    We do not do home demolitions of dual citizens who engage in Israeli espionage here.Not one home has ever been bulldozed, not even Jonathan Pollard’s.

    Torturing Jewish children has not been made legal by our Supreme Court.

    Shared values? Don’t you DARE let those words pass again. Ever.

  39. etominusipi  October 10, 2012 at 5:44 pm

    well said, Jim. You don’t do cheap jibes, but neither do you pull your pinches. you tell it straight.

    and good news that some church leaders are taking down the CRITICISM OF ISRAEL FORBIDDEN signs. I think Gunter Grass has been influential in this respect, and perhaps Prof David Ray Griffin, whose relentless expose of 911 wickedness has shown him to be a man of integrity, faith, diligence, and with a sense of humour. As a distinguished theological scholar, the thinking end of the Christian spectrum can hardly igbore his splendid example.

    how the US has created 60 million “Christian” zionists remains at this date a mystery to me, though it is clearly a remarkable feat of brainwashing.

    let us hope, both for their sake and ours, they are all soon raptured, though to airlift 60 million people would have to be carefully organized.

    since no one but God knows the time or place, some people might be carrying implements like pitchforks, chain saws, cut throat razors, or even guns, items which, even with the best intentions, could, in a mid-air collision, seriously injure a fellow-rapturee. no one wants to begin eternal life with his arm in a sling, or a nasty scar. And rapture, whilst undoubtedly delicious, is liable to makeall of us a little less careful.

    i am using a friend’s computer at present, and the T-mobile ‘dongle’ has a content lock (removable on presentation of credit card details – i have not bothered), supposedly to protect children, but which in my usage seems to only block certain zio-sensitive sites, for example just a minute ago after googling “scofield, falwell funding” i was blocked from checking out a search result headed:
    “The Scofield Bible, Oxford Publishing and the House of Rothchild”
    so i am just left with the intriguing verbal summary:

    The Scofield Bible, Oxford Publishing and the House of Rothchild
    wakeupfromyourslumber.com/…/scofield-bible-oxford-publishing-a…
    7 Oct 2010 – The Scofield Bible was financed by the House of Rothchild with the sole purpose … Rothschild founded and funded the Zionist movement to further a New World …. Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell weave Scofield’s “Jews” into …

    curiously T-Mobile’s owners (via a series of daughter companies, e.g. Everything Everywhere in the UK) are Deutsche Telkom and France Telecom. DT has from 2009 expanded its operations in Israel, though this may be due mainly to their specialised knowledge being useful for satisfying the communications needs of the wives and girl friends (or boy friends) of the new elite generation of Israeli nuclear submariners.

    I note that DT’s CEO, Rene Obermann was an attendee at the (June 21-23 2011) 3rd Israeli Presidential Conference, a gathering which included such distinguished yet diverse luminaries as as Tony Blair, Henry Kissinger and Sarah Silvermann.

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