Rejection of Obama by Electoral College

Winner, 332 to 206


By Michael Shrimpton

That rather silly woman, with respect, Anne Applebaum, has had another go at the so-called ‘birthers’ in her typically ill-informed column in today’s Daily Telegraph.  She regards the views of those who believe that Barack Hussein Obama was born in the United States as rational.  By implication she also criticises the many Republicans who consider that Obama was born in what is now Kenya for rejecting the legitimacy of his claim to the presidency.

For a view to be rational it must be based on the evidence.  Like most pro-Obama commentators Applebaum does not condescend to consider the evidence, indeed I have not seen rational discussion of the issue anywhere in the mainstream media.  For a serious consideration of the issue you have to go online, onto reputable websites like Veterans Today.

The competing theories may be shortly stated.  President Obama and the Democratic Party claim that he was born in Honolulu in the State of Hawai’i on August 4th 1961.  They have been consistent about the date but not the place.  Two different hospitals were put forward at different times in the 2008 election (I have been tracking this issue since Obama first came on my radar, as a state senator in Illinois, about ten years ago).  The President and the Democrats have now settled on the Kapio’lani Maternity Hospital in Honolulu.   Mainstream media commentators like Anne Applebaum are seemingly unaware that two different US birthplaces have been put forward by the President and his supporters.  They tend to take the latest White House position as fact.

The Kenya theory, supported by many Republicans, a broad swathe of the international intelligence community (behind the scenes) and, in the public domain, by the entrepreneur Donald Trump, asserts that the President was born in or near Mombasa in what is now Kenya.  Within this group there are five main sub-groups – those who say that the date of birth is correct but not the place, those who put the birth in 1960, those who say that the claimed maternal relationship is true but not the paternal relationship, those who put it the other way round and those who accept the claimed parentage but not place of birth.  There is of course cross-over between these groups on the date of birth.

The CIA, semi-publicly, accepted maternity but challenged paternity.  Two names for the father, including the radical black activist ‘Malcolm X,’ were privately circulated by ‘sources close to the CIA’ in 2010 and 2011.  The CIA’s true position, supported I am told by a DNA test, is that the claimed paternity is correct but not maternity.  Their official position is of course the White House line, i.e. that President Obama is eligible to be sworn in as President on January 21st.   The CIA were actually quite slow to get to grips with the issue.  So far as I know no work was done on it until I briefed them in, in 2007.  Both MI5 and MI6 held out on them for some months afterwards, indeed I don’t think MI6 made full disclosure of their position until CIA had the DNA test done (I am told they used wine and water glasses, with the DNA swabs verified by fingerprints).  Homeland Security are said to agree with the CIA’s internal assessment.  They of course have access to the immigration and passport records, which have never been disclosed publicly and are apparently troubling for the Democrats.

The Mossad, DGSE, BND, SVR, MI5 and MI6 go with Mombasa, although there is some disagreement between the agencies about date of birth.  SVR are rumored to favour 1961, e.g., whereas MI6 and Mossad are said to go with 1960.  MI5 have a file because the colonial internal security files came over from Nairobi in 1963.  Since Obama’s father and grandfather were both linked to the Mau-Mau terrorist organization they were very properly made the subjects of intelligence and police surveillance.

There is actually very little evidential support for the Honolulu theory.  The document the media refer to as a ‘birth certificate’ is nothing of the sort.  It is an electronic facsimile, unsupported by matching Hawai’i file entries, which are sealed.  I respectfully associate myself with the criticisms of this document by the forensic specialists who examined it at the behest of Arizona lawman Sheriff Joe Arpaio.  It consists of multiple layers and appears to have been generated by software.  It is not an original, nor even a photocopy of an original.

It does not take the case very much further, save that its production is damaging to the White House’s credibility, as was the production of a shorter-form purported certificate in 2008, which was denounced at the time as a forgery by a Hawai’ian official, although the state then backtracked, under intense political pressure.  The older fabrication was a two-dimensional computer file, which appeared to have been photo-shopped.  The purported official seal lacked depth, a common mistake by forgers.

There is a self-serving entry in the Honolulu Advertiser, which again takes the case no further, since it has always been clear that the ‘parents’ were claiming the birth of a baby boy named Barack in Honolulu on 4th August 1961.  The address in that advertisement was not real however, an odd feature.

There are some surprising lacunae in the evidence produced.  The claimed mother’s medical records, e.g., have never been released.  That calls for comment, since in the US there would have been an attending physician. One would expect to see some reference in the medical records for a teenage girl undergoing her first pregnancy.  There are no photographs showing Ann Dunham whilst pregnant, and no evidence that she took ‘her’ child with her to Washington State, after she left school in Honolulu.  There are no photographs of Barack Obama in the US before the age of about two.

Neither of the alleged places of birth has a record of Ann Dunham being admitted in the first week of August 1961, hospital admission records being something investigators have been calling for over four years.  There are no supporting records from the attending physician, whose name was suppressed for some three years after the issue started to gain traction.  There are issues over the numbering of the long form birth certificate produced, which does not appear to be in sequence.  The relevant immigration records are sealed, something which troubled Sheriff Arpaio, an experienced lawman, and his investigating posse.  I know some have challenged the sheriff’s good faith, but I see no reason to question it.  He is a man of the highest integrity  –  we are not talking Thames Valley Police here.

The passport records are relevant, because President Obama cannot have visited Pakistan during the al-Huq dictatorship on a US passport.  On what basis was he issued a passport by another state?  If Indonesian what was said to the Indonesian authorities about his date and place of birth?

The President’s college records are relevant because he appears to have received scholarship funding for which he would not have been eligible had he been born in the USA.  It is also a valid point that he took no steps to correct a book-cover bio describing him as Kenyan-born, a fact of which Anne Applebaum seems to be unaware.

Article 2 of the US Constitution seems to me to be clear enough.  To be eligible for the presidency a candidate presented to the Electoral College has to be an American Citizen, born in the United States.  It is a matter entirely for them but I see no reason why the Electors could not ask for evidence of Barack Obama’s eligibility.  That applies to all candidates of all races from all parties by the way.

I don’t accept that Senator McCain was eligible to be sworn-in, as in my opinion he was born in a hospital in downtown Colon, in Panama.  It wouldn’t matter if he were born on Coco Solo Marine Corps Air Base, as he claims, as that was not in the United States.  Quite where on the base he was born is a moot point, since the hospital was not built for another five years.  I don’t accept that Senator Goldwater qualified for the presidency either – his eligibility was queried at the time, as he was born in a territory, not a state.

If I am right in my conclusion that President Obama was born in what is now Kenya (it was then the Coastal Protectorate) he cannot have been born to Ann Dunham, as there is no evidence she was in Kenya in 1960 or 1961.  Since she is his route to US citizenship (a somewhat doubtful route at best, since his father was already married and the form of ceremony of marriage between Ann and Barack Hussein Senior was bigamous) birth in the Protectorate would also take down his US Citizenship.  He has never naturalized and is not in my opinion a US Citizen by birth (jus soli) or descent (jus sanguini).

If those conclusions are right Vice-President’s Biden suitability to be President might be called into question, on the ground that he either knew or ought to have known that the President was ineligible, although that would more properly be a matter for Congress on impeachment, not the Electoral College, as I read the US Constitution, not least as some states bind their electors to follow the popular vote.

We might see the House Speaker as President before next year is out.  He might want to look out his birth certificate, a document the Democratic Party could have called for before nominating Barack Obama in 2008 (it’s odd that there is almost no due diligence on presidential candidates, but there is for presidential nominees once they’ve been elected).

9th November 2012





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49 Responses to "Rejection of Obama by Electoral College"

  1. Michael Shrimpton  November 15, 2012 at 3:53 pm

    Steve, you describe yourself!

    My point about Boehner (at least he’s not ‘von’ Boehner!) was directed towards the end of next year, not this. Joe Biden’s problem is that he either knew or should have known that Mr. O, on balance, was not eligible to be President. There were a number of court challenges and a hugely important court martial at Fort Meade, so the issue has been on Washington’s radar.

    I myself briefed in several senior Democrats and I am sure I wasn’t alone. IF Biden knew and kept quiet then Congress could impeach him, it being a matter entirely for Congress. If they did, Speaker Boehner would become President.

    I do wish movie-makers would bring in consultants (like myself – my fees are very reasonable !!) to review movies at the editing stage whey use stock footage. I’ve just re-watched that fine movie Battleground, starring Ricardo Montalban and the under-rated Van Johnson, a stirring tribute to the Screaming Eagles and their wonderful stand at Bastogne, where they killed lots of Germans.

    As someone says ‘hey, they’re P-47s” I just knew the director had screwed up. Sure enough the stock footage started off with Thunderbolts, then switched to Mustangs (didn’t he know they only had 6 .50 cals, on most models, whereas a -47 had 8?) and then a fine study of a rocket-firing RAF Hawker Typhoon, a superb strike fighter, just what you want to give ‘Jerry’ a good strafing.

    Any movie-makers out there should feel free to call. Gordon has my number!

    I share Gordon’s doubts about the official reason for forcing poor old David Petraeus out. He’s a good man, and did an outstanding job in Iraq. It rather looks as though the White House were holding the mistress thing over him, and waited until the election was safely won before making their move. I would be surprised if they hadn’t decided moths ago who their new knew DCI would be.

    The White House are playing a dangerous game, given the contents of the DCI’s safe.

  2. Steve  November 15, 2012 at 5:55 am

    Coming from someone who confuses history with fantasy, fact with unfounded opinion, and truth with patent falsehood on a regular basis here your jibe is a bit rich to say the least. And the upshot of your piece was that Boehner should be President by year’s end if your advice is followed. Bit of a German looking name though, eh? The ‘DVD’ plot thickens…

  3. Michael Shrimpton  November 14, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    I was sorry to hear about Professor Miller, JS. He sounded like a good man.

    I am unaware of any connection with Zanzibar royalty. The then Sultan, Jamshid bin Abdullah, was quite a nice chap by all accounts. The man to talk to, if he’s still around (it’s been years since I bumped into the old boy), is Major Basil Davidson. He has some dodgy views on the British Empire, with respect, but he knows Africa backwards. I would be surprised if hadn’t bumped into Jamshid, who was overthrown by China’s Julius Nyerere, a charming man, much nicer than his boss Mao Tse-Tung. I once heard Julius give a speech, at Red Lion Hall, in London, in my Anti-Apartheid days.

    There is some confusion on Steve’s part – there usually is. I am NOT saying the Electoral College should fail to follow the popular vote and install Romney. I thought I had gone out of my way to say they should elect Biden when they meet, which I think will be on December 12 (there – I can speak American!).

    One of the functions of the Electoral College is to ensure that ineligible candidates are not elected to the office of President. They are perfectly entitled to question a candidate’s credentials. It is a matter entirely for them.

    The requirement for the President to be natural born comes from Article 2 of the US Constitution. I defer to US scholars on its interpretation, and opinion is divided, but as someone has pointed out the intent seems to have been to avoid Presidents on another country’s payroll, like Lord North (Ben Franklin confirmed that snippet from the French I gather) and presidents with dual citizenship, ie dual loyalties.

    Most people born in the US to a foreign father will take their father’s nationality, by descent, hence the interpretation of ‘natural born’ which says that both parents should be US citizens at the time of birth, an interpretation which would rule out Rubio, who is soft on illegal immigration anyway.

    It is best to avoid uncertainty and to select a candidate who is all-American, like Ronald Reagan or George McGovern. A Senator need only be a US Citizen, ie there is no problem with Rubio as Senator, just President or Vice-President.

    Why the Democratic Party should choose a non-US Citizen to be their candidate for President of the United States is a question you will have to ask them. It’s sure got me puzzled!

  4. JS  November 14, 2012 at 7:07 am

    In case anybody missed it when I first mentioned it in VT, I had a very good friend, Professor Jim Miller, who was murdered in a home invasion last year. He never did anything wrong in his whole life. He taught biology, and the worst thing ever said about him is that his jokes were corny. Everybody loved him. He died defending his wife, who survived. He was stabbed over and over, but he ran after the perps, and died by the mailbox on the street. This was at night. The neighbors didn’t see anything, but they could hear someone moaning, “Help me, help me, help me.” Those were his last words, and he expired before they arrived. But Jim was a very good man, so he’s in Paradise now, and yes it exists. I have a lot of NDE people in my family; they have been there, but had to come back to this hellhole.

    The perps have not yet been caught, but I blame drug gangs from Chicago, maybe just looking to make their bones, get initiated, by killing someone, anyone. Meth, heroin, they’re everywhere. I don’t hate Chicago per se, but I hate what it has become, what the whole country has become, because of drug money (both illegal and legal drugs) and The Pusher. I still have the Steppenwolf album with that song on it. So I see POTUS, whoever he/she is, as just the Pusher-in-Chief. That’s my rant of the day.

  5. JS  November 14, 2012 at 6:40 am

    Good point about Obama being a British Commonwealth citizen. Which reminds me of a similar point. I had fun looking into the current Order of Canada fiasco re: Conrad Black. In scouting around, I found out that the committee years ago offered an Honorary Order of Canada to Prince Philip. He rightly refused, as the “honorary” implied that he was not a citizen. They thought they would fix the problem by again offering it to him, not honorary this time, but he again refused. Australia did it right; they offered their similar order to Prince Philip, and he accepted it.

  6. JS  November 14, 2012 at 6:23 am

    Yeah, watch out for green potatoes too.

  7. JS  November 14, 2012 at 6:08 am

    Btw, Kenya Colony was in the interior. Check your records, and you will find that the strip along the coast had a different name, different leadership, different ownership. Mombasa is old, old, old. It should be a permanent Free Port.

  8. JS  November 14, 2012 at 5:47 am

    All joking aside, if the Electoral College doesn’t certify Pres. Obama, then we have a problem. Not for me to say how it should be solved, but it looks to me like DC has until the Inauguration, to solve it. Will Pres. Obama stay on? Will there be a deal for him to do so? I don’t see why not. DC is all about deals, but I think it all depends on the Treasury, and who funds the Treasury. Joe Biden keeps making it clear that he doesn’t want the job, as he has credibility problems of his own. So I could envision a President Hillary, or President Boehner, unless they have both been compromised too.

    If the Democrats should insist that it’s Chicago’s turn for the presidency, that could be satisfied by Hillary. She was officially born in Chicago. So when she was up against Obama for the nomination, it was seen by many as a Chicago vs. Chicago catfight, like the baseball rivalry between the Cubs and the White Sox. I like the Cubs, btw, as they are the underdog, have been for more than 100 years now.

  9. JS  November 14, 2012 at 5:29 am

    Mr. Shrimpton,
    Any chance that Pres. Obama’s mother’s line includes the Sultan of Zanzibar, or someone of like stature? It’s clear to me that a boy from Mombasa would have the blood of many peoples in his veins, too. Maybe even royalty.

    I remember Zanzibar, as my mother was a bit of a freak about ships and old trading routes. That was one of the places I always wanted to visit, arriving by sea of course, in a wooden ship, the way that Ibn Battuta would have arrived. I didn’t get to go there, not yet anyway, not to those particular Spice Islands. I started with the Spice Islands of the Caribbean. I met my future spouse on a tall ship there in 1985, and we happened to arrive in Grenada while Pres. Reagan was in hospital recovering from surgery to remove polyps from his colon. The people of Grenada were good to us, but they asked bizarre questions, such as “Will there be a coup while Pres. Reagan is laid up in bed?” We said no, it’s minor surgery. But from their point of view, after the US’s invasion of Grenada in 1983, anything was possible, right? I didn’t have the heart to tell them that the real coup happened when Reagan got shot shortly after he took office.

  10. JS  November 13, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    Sorry, I couldn’t resist the prudent bit. Of course, we would be much better off with Beyoncé in charge, so famous that she only needs one name. And so good-looking, that every superannuated male in the country would vote for her. And she already knows Mike Myers from their work in the Austin Powers film Goldmember, so why not? She could be President, and Mike could be the VP. Seriously, since the President is only an actor anyway, why not elect professional actors rather than amateurs? The country did quite well under RR the actor. Perhaps we need another RR in the Presidency. Robert Redford would fit the bill.

  11. JS  November 13, 2012 at 3:30 pm

    You are not the sharpest tack in the box, are you? The Presidency has a VERY unique job description. For the Congress, you can be an ordinary US citizen, you can even be a triple citizen like Mike Myers if you want. But for the the Presidency, you must be not just a citizen, but a “natural born” citizen, whether you or I like it or not. Stupidity or ignorance of the law is rarely excused by judges. And that’s just the way the job was set up. Shrimpton is right; if we don’t like , we need to change the Constitution first. As a matter of fact, that idea was floated before, when Governor of California Arnold Schwartzenegger was interested in the Presidency. Of course, he cannot run for President, because he was born and raised in Austria, came to the US, and naturalized as an American citizen.

    Since Pres. Obama was born in Africa (Zanzibar, according to the article above) rather than on US soil, he is NOT natural born, period, and therefore was always ineligible to be President. Whether he was a US citizen at birth, or became one later when he married Michelle, or whether he didn’t even bother to naturalize, all these are fair questions.

    By the way, I did NOT have a horse in the Presidential race. It’s no skin off my nose, whatever the Electoral College does. But I will say this: I lived a little ways downwind of Chicago, for 20 years. On bad pollution days, the skies were yellow and smelled bad. But the real smell came from the corruption in Chicago. Steel mills, Hogtown, butcher to the world, and now Chicago is butcher OF the world. Both of Obama’s Chicago chiefs of staff have ditched him. First, Rahm Emanuel, and then Bill Daley. They went back home to Chicago. As bad as Chicago is, it says a lot about the stench in DC, that these guys got chased back to Chicago.

  12. mullerohana  November 13, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    Where are you getting that a person has to be born in America to run for president? The Constitution says a candidate for president must be a “natural born citizen”. If his mother is an American citizen, that makes him a “natural born” American citizen. It doesn’t matter where he was born. If that were the case, no pregnant woman would dare go on vacation for fear of giving birth outside the US. The identity of his father is also inconsequential. Prior to the 1980’s, there was no way to determine a person’s father, except good faith. The father is whoever the mother says. She could have said, “Mickey Mouse”, and that’s what would have been written on the BC. Obama is a citizen, and since he’s not a naturalized immigrant citizen (what our forefathers wanted to avoid), he’s a “natural born” one.

  13. Steve  November 13, 2012 at 2:55 am

    Yeah I forgot that detail though I did once read up on it, of course the reporting practically universally refers to the Electoral College and its constituent votes as decided by the election, and electors are pledged to vote as elected to do by the electorate. Of course they can rat but rarely do, if there is a mass defection Gordon can give you a medal for having turned the tide, and himself one for having given you a soapbox to do it from. And by ‘colonial subject’ I was being tongue in cheek, after all how else did a Kenyan end up a British Subject other than by colonialism by and large. Britain’s Gulag is a good account of it, also known as Imperial Reckoning. Perhaps HM can invest you with Letters of Marque to apprehend fugitive Kenyans in the finest traditions of British privateering amongst other related activites, with an eye patch and a parrot on your shoulder you would certainly look the part. ‘Captain Shrimpton of HMS Bollocks on Her Majesty’s Secret Service’, just look out for the US Sixth and Second Fleets on your way over.

  14. JS  November 12, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    Mr. Shrimpton,
    I do NOT want my spouse, my children, or my grandchildren, to be POTUS or in politics. Too sleazy of a job. Baseball or even cricket would be cricket, but no steroids and no sports betting. I had a brother who was an umpire, and he was a good one.

  15. JS  November 12, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    Mr. Shrimpton,
    The big question is, of course, Why. Why the elaborate charade. I assume that at some point you will address that. I have not yet even mentioned dual citizens, which I believe the Founding Fathers rejected as being unsuitable material for the Presidency, for sound reasons, so that there would be no question of mixed allegiances. So on its face, a guy like Obama who published an autobiography, admitting that his dad was Kenyan/British, and that he himself was Indonesian by adoption, should have been swiftly dismissed by the Democratic National Committee,unless he coughed up proof of having only American citizenship. What were they smoking?

    If dual/triple/quadruple citizens already can be President of the US without the Constitution being amended, I would like to nominate comedian Mike Myers for the job. He has citizenship in 3 countries, and he’s funny everywhere. He’s a heck of a lot funnier than Joe Biden, and he wouldn’t be the first actor to become President. I think he could bring a lot to the job, including a huge frickin’ laser on a shark. I think he could defuse the situation. Dana Carvey could be his VP, and entertain us with his GHW Bush imitations, or would that be prudent?

  16. JS  November 12, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    When I got up the morning of Nov. 9, I knew it was going to be a bad day for the US and the world, and I was loaded for bear. You caught my ire because of your disrespect for the author of the article. His name is not Shrimp, and I don’t recall him asking to be called that. Nov. 11 is always another bad day, more lies. My personal adventure on Nov. 11 was that I had to rescue an ancient WW2 veteran at Golden Corral on Nov. 11. He was right in front of me at the register, and a 18-20 year old arrogant girl at the cash register reamed him out because he hadn’t seen the tiny 5×3 sign on the door that said the free meal for veterans would be Monday night. I gave the kid a lesson in how to say No nicely to a veteran, with a real smile, and to say, Please come back Monday night. I said this in front of the other customers, and she apologized. The reason I said I rescued the vet, is that he was too much of a gentleman to complain about the rude treatment, but I found it intolerable. My Dad isn’t around anymore, but this veteran could have been his comrade, for all I know.

  17. JS  November 12, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    The Trane incident happened in 1993-94. And a very similar thing happened at Dana Corp. near Indianapolis around the same time. They were hiring 30 engineers, and their interviewing team featured a guy with a Doctorate in Engineering. I was there with one of the interviewees, for moral support. When he came out of the building, he said to me, “You will never believe this. I mentioned the KISS principle during the interview, and the Dr. asked me, ‘What’s the KISS principle?’ He wasn’t joking around. He seriously did not know.”

    Needless to say, he didn’t get one of the 30 jobs, which is a good thing, because after 6 months, Dana got rid of 24 of them, and kept 6. ALL 6 were women. Dana Corp’s excuse was that the feds demanded more women in return for federal contracts, but in the meantime they had lied to 24 other guys/women and their families, some of whom had moved across the country to be there. So a class action lawsuit ensued. I don’t know how it turned out, as my friend declined to be involved, because he didn’t want to be blacklisted.

  18. Michael Shrimpton  November 12, 2012 at 11:03 am

    Having provided the intel to the CIA in one sense I ‘own’ it, ie it is more a question of my providing intel to CIA rather than the other way round.

    The CIA didn’t do a DNA test on the alleged mother, Ann Dunham, who sadly died of cancer in the 1990’s, but on the grandmother, ie her mother. Since that relationship is not in dispute that was a perfectly fair way of doing it.

    The wine glass idea was mine by the way – MI5 had done something similar when a British politician exposed himself to blackmail by pretending to have fathered a child which wasn’t his. The true father was a party colleague. The mother and true father were both invited to a dinner. Entirely by co-incidence I was also invited. Special Branch had a tame caterer and Bob was your uncle, as it were.

    My experience of DNA fingerprinting goes back to 1985, when I became I think the second lawyer in the world to use DNA fingerprinting in legal proceedings. At that stage the process was still experimental. I was advising an immigrant whose relationship to a sponsor in the UK had been questioned by the Home Office.

    ‘President Obama’ is not a colonial subject but a British Subject,. The status applies to all Commonwealth Citizens and is not limited to British Subjects who live in colonies, such as the Falkland Islands.

    Steve with respect is confused about the US Constitution. The Electoral College doesn’t ‘meet’ (it does not meet as a body) to decide who the next President shall be, until December.

  19. Steve  November 12, 2012 at 9:31 am

    He’s so sore that a black ‘colonial subject’ as he prefers it whupped his Great White Hope’s ass that he’s pretending it somehow didn’t happen!

    Looks like time for the DaViD to put Shrimp on the job full-time, unlimited shekels for his valuable hours, pro-bono is for bums! And fulfil his Boy’s Own dream of being a ‘Secret Agent Man’ like he always knew he could be…

  20. The Rahnameh  November 12, 2012 at 9:10 am

    We have a gaping national security problem if “Michael Shrimpton” has access to the information listed in this article.

  21. The Rahnameh  November 12, 2012 at 9:09 am

    Kudos, Steve. His misinterpretation of the Constitution and laughable attempt to pretend he would be in the feeding chain for such information re: background tests on the sitting POTUS is cute — at most.

    Michael Shrimpton’s biggest problem with Obama is that Obama is about to put a haymaker in the eye of Zion.

  22. The Rahnameh  November 12, 2012 at 9:05 am

    You are free to read our Constitution, but you are not free to interpret it incorrectly. There’s neither stare decisis, dicta in the Constitution, nor proof of legislator/framer intent that what they wanted is for the answer to be, as you state, “to rush back to America and give birth there.” Indeed, the entire point bites on the human psychology of being loyal to one’s birth place. The meaning of it is to ensure that the President is not an agent of a foreign country. It is not some bright-line rule intended to create English-style bureaucratic inequities.

    Where did they obtain the proper DNA sample from Ann Dunham? What is the point of raising a foreign-born puppet when it would be much easier to raise a legit one?

    You present a lot of fodder, but it’s just that. Professional eyes see your piece as one intended merely to continue American mistrust in the individual who could care less NOW if Zion falls off a cliff.

    There is no way you were in the feeding chain for such information if it was outside of the purview of the highest office in this country. Point blank.

  23. Steve  November 12, 2012 at 6:39 am

    More counter-reality from our barmy barrister, note Obama was elected by the Electoral College, not rejected, for those that didn’t know. As well as by the electorate. And when it comes to it, if it takes a ‘Kenyan’ to prevent Armageddon, then a ‘Kenyan’ will do thanks. The rest is trivia by comparison. Oh and he IS the President, regardless. De facto and by vote. And American.

  24. Michael Shrimpton  November 12, 2012 at 3:57 am

    I shall not of course rise to the abuse.

    For the record Jimmy Savile was not a gentleman, nor was Edward Heath, to whom he is said to have supplied young boys in Jersey. That’s the big name, which to date has been kept out of the MSM, although a Labour MP has used the formula “a former Prime Minister.”

    Sensible comment on the Supreme Court. There are a range of possible interpretations of natural born and difficulties arise in relation to US ships and aircraft, overseas bases, embassies and territories. The sensible thing would not to choose as your candidate some one like Senator Rubio, who would only meet some definitions.

    I am not buying Senator McCain’s claim, with respect, to have been born on a US base, but if even he was my view is that you guys would need to amend your constitution.

    We are as free to comment on your politics as you are on ours. After the CIA’s (strictly COREA Group but CIA assets were used) interference in the 1975 referendum campaign on EEC membership, in which the result was rigged, nobody over is too worried about being seen to interfere in US domestic politics! the result of that referendum, over the last 37 years, has cost us more than the entire US GDP. EU membership currently costs us around $6.5 billion a week.

    In any event since Obama appears to have been born in a territory under British control and his father was under British surveillance as a terrorist we have intel which we are duty bound to share with you under UKUSA arrangements. Technically, since on balance he is a Citizen of Kenya (indeed even on his own case he is probably a Kenyan national by descent, ie a dual national), and Kenya is in the British Commonwealth, he is a British Subject.

    Quite why the US electorate, 236 years after the Declaration of Independence, has elected a British Subject to be President is something the Democrats will have to explain.

    Thankfully the US electorate doesn’t get to elect the President. That is the job of the Electoral College, and they are in no way obliged to elect somebody who is not qualified to be President under Article 2 of the US Constitution. They should, as a courtesy, ask the candidate whose credentials have been questioned, to verify them. If they do they will find the evidence to be very weak, and in two cases, forged.

    It’s their call. but in my view they should elect Joe Biden as President.

    This does NOT mean I support Joe Biden. He is something of a figure of fun over here, having plagiarized the speech of someone I have met (Neil Kinnock – I was actually in the conference hall when he gave the speech) in the 1988 race. On constitutional and intel matters however I try to be objective.

    It is precisely because I do not allow party political consideration to affect my views on non-party matters that I am as firm in rejecting Senator McCain’s qualifications to be President as I am in rejecting ‘President’ Obama’s. Of course there might be the odd race riot if he were to be rejected by the Electoral College, although I would hope not. The answer is to explain to African Americans why he was being rejected – not because he is an African American, but because he is an African, period. He would I am sure make an excellent President of Kenya.

    The Kenyans by the way are quite proud of the achievements of one of their own and so they should be. What I am saying is not particularly controversial in Nairobi. It is certainly not disputed, off the record, by Kenyan intelligence.

    The position of Senator Goldwater is less clear, as he was born in a territory which later became part of the continental United States. The better view, however, is that birth in a territory is insufficient.

    I suspect birth on a US registered ship or aircraft would be fine, as they are treated as part of US soil.

    Embassies are NOT US soil, although they are under US jurisdiction and enjoy immunities under the Vienna Convention. The American Embassy in London is on British soil, just as Massachusetts Avenue is still part of the United States (just, some might say!).

    If you want your child to grow up to be President (and what true American mother doesn’t) the answer is to rush back to America and give birth there. Yorkshire mothers used to rush back to Yorkshire, if they wanted their son, if it was going to be a son, to be born within the county and so qualify to play cricket for Yorkshire. If they didn’t want their son to play cricket for Yorkshire they failed the test for being a true Yorkshirewoman.

  25. The Rahnameh  November 11, 2012 at 11:38 pm

    This is a psy-op piece intended to create distrust in the individual that is the only one defending you all. The likely reason that President Obama has issues with his birth certificate is most convincingly presented by Michael Rivero.

    Also, as the first Facebook poster most effectively stated: “where they were born is irrelevant; what they are made of is critical.” There is no reason to assume ANYTHING President Obama has done in the last four years is any less patriotic than what W. Bush had done before him. The behavior, instead, shows the President Obama was once a puppet who thought he had a bright future, but realized he was being scapegoated by the same faction that gave him rise for all of their past and ongoing wrongs.

    On Obama, he was given rise by Chicago’s Zionists. Bill Clinton’s money man, Rahm Emmanuel (IDF), helped him and got a tit-for-tat chief of staff appointment. Unlike the last Shah of Iran, however, when he realized the “powers” had decided it was time for him to go, he decided to stick around and put up a fight. He is far more clever than the Shah ever was. In fact, he is outright brilliant.

    It is our duty to help him change the policies of our government to line again with our interests. He is not a dictator; he is an elected President.

  26. Gordon Duff  November 11, 2012 at 7:16 am


    The Panthers were the “Minutemen” of their day.

    Failing to see that is part of America’s “white -slave” mentality.

  27. PallMall  November 10, 2012 at 4:18 am

    And you really believe all these intel sources kept President Clinton in the dark when his wife was running for President? They had the goods on Obama and didn’t lift a finger to inform or help Clinton in the two years before the 2008 election? You believe that? Only you and certain intel groups knew? Why would someone protect a relatively senator so fiercely?

    The Mau-Maus were over in 1959. The statue of limitations is way over for declassifying that info. Where is it?

  28. Worker Bee  November 10, 2012 at 3:53 am

    Mr. Shrimpton harps on Roe v. Wade, but makes no mention of the ridiculous SCOTUS decision of Bush v. Gore?

  29. Worker Bee  November 10, 2012 at 3:39 am

    “Unless FMD has ancestors with more delicate features and bone structure than his own, he could not possibly be the biological dad of BHO.”

    Not making a claim one way or the other as to the actual parentage, but the above is incorrect, since it fails to account for the genetic contribution of the mother.

  30. judgment  November 9, 2012 at 10:46 pm

    She is not worth reading. Like the Coulter woman the Media made her famous now she laugh all the way to the bank as illiterate right reads her trash. It is what they do with the superficial research they find to give they work published that drives me crazy.

    As for the birther, at the moment, given the pitiful mess we were in with Bush I am not surprised it took an internationally moulded person to see through the …..we were being given. so, since the issue, from a Constitutional point, is a political misinterpretation of the Constitution as to intention that found its way into the Constitutional via the 14th Amendment, I fell free to believe Obama is legitimate based on the original Constitutional Intent. A Constitutional error by the Judges of the 14th Amendment can be corrected.

  31. markboughton  November 9, 2012 at 10:44 pm

    Maybe I’m wrong but after 8 years of Bush / Cheney, Hilary wouldn’t have had much trouble beating McCain, would she ?

    And she knew the score better than anyone.

    So why would they bother with Obama if he wasn’t eligible ?

    That’s what I don’t get.

  32. markboughton  November 9, 2012 at 10:23 pm

    Purely for Mr Shrimp.

  33. dishman  November 9, 2012 at 6:31 pm

    The first problem with your ASSumption is that you believe that his mother is Ann Dunham, until that is proven nothing else needs to be discussed. All of her and O’s photos are photo shopped. Personally I believe she had short hair and lived in New York and was banging Malcom X. Nothing can be construed as truthful when the facts are so abound.

  34. JS  November 9, 2012 at 5:40 pm

    Nov. 9 is also the anniversary of the Napoleon Bonaparte coup in 1799, which has emboldened/inflamed revolutionaries ever since, I think. More importantly, it’s also the anniversary of the execution of German politician Robert Blum in Vienna in 1848. here’s what the Wikipedia page currently says about Robert Blum: “In October, when revolutionary fighting broke out in Vienna, Blum travelled there and joined the revolutionary forces. On the surrender of the capital to Windischgrätz, Blum was arrested with several of his companions on 4 November. Brought before a military tribunal, he pleaded in vain his privileges as a deputy from the German Diet and was condemned to be hanged, a sentence which was changed to death by the bullet. He was executed on 9 November. His death became a symbol for the futility of Germany’s 1848 rebellion; the day of his death marks the first of a series of events that led to November 9 being referred to as Germany’s Schicksalstag (fateful day).”

  35. JS  November 9, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    Another comment about Petraeus, and anyone else in the Washington DC cesspool…The “love bomb” has been around for a long time now, and I don’t mean the love that cults pour on their targets. I mean the actual nonlethal weapon, that any 2-bit thug can get, and use on anyone. These nonlethal weapons supposedly have demoralized the enemy in combat, by making them fall madly in love/lust with their comrade next to them. So if a guy in DC chases a skirt, another man, a child, or whatever, as a love object, how does he know whether it was his own free will and stupidity, or whether his capacity for free will was stolen from him? All it takes is once, a one-night stand, to destroy a guy’s career. Did the devil make him do it? Not likely.

    Sure, there have always been some naturally oversexed people going to Washington. Some of them were innocents who then got corrupted there. In simpler days, spies would get a guy drunk and have fun, maybe slip him a mickey finn. But now, we have designer drugs that can be put in the air you breathe, we have electromagnetic weapons that can be used from a distance to target any part of your body to make you do stuff you would never ever do.

    At what point do we look at guys like Petraeus, or Weiner, or Eliot Spitzer (etc, ad nauseum) and say, what makes you think you had an affair of your own free will? At what point do we get tired of the nonstop blackmail of EVERYBODY who is important, and say, “Enough is enough?” Who is behind all this?

  36. JS  November 9, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    Today is Nov. 9, Germany’s so-called “day of destiny” the perfect day for an anniversary coup or counter-coup. Screw ’em.

  37. JS  November 9, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    I’m glad you mentioned that the Supreme Court has not been bound by its own decisions, not for a long time now. I’m tempted to say that they don’t seem to be bound by common sense, either. For me, common sense would be to go back to what the term “natural born” meant when it was used. It meant a child born in US territory, of 2 parents who were US citizens prior to the child’s birth. So Rubio, as well as Bobby Jindal, Gov. of Louisiana, are both ineligible on the grounds that their parents were not US citizens BEFORE the birth.

    For me, the stickiest issue is: What constitutes US territory? I’m not sure what that meant to the Founding Fathers. I think they likely would have considered that a baby born on a US flagged/owned ship in international waters, as long as it was a baby born of 2 US citizen parents, would be a “natural born” US citizen. Likewise a child born on a US military base abroad, or a child born on US embassy grounds abroad, would be considered US territory. To me, that is common sense also. In that case, maybe McCain met the requirement.

    Miss Ann Dunham, if she is the mother, should have gone to a US consulate or embassy and given birth there, under a tree or in the bathroom or something. Or in a manger, as long as the US flag flew over it.

  38. JS  November 9, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    General Petraeus just resigned; an affair has been cited. Let the games begin! It’s going to get ugly.

  39. Michael Shrimpton  November 9, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    An interesting mix of comments! Some posters are even starting to make sense!

    Frank Marshall Davis was the other name put round by the CIA, but I’m not buying. Some of the intel pukes at Langley wanted a name with a genuine claim to US Citizenship. They knew the marriage was bigamous and that even if she were the mother Ann Dunham could not pass her citizenship to BHO, so they came up with Davis, or Malcolm X – depended on who you talked to and when.

    It was all a nonsense, as paternity was settled by the DNA test.

    Only Kenya Colony was referred to as Kenya prior to 1963. Mombasa was formally part of the Sultanate of Zanzibar, and a British Protectorate. Technically, in my opinion, BHO at birth was a Subject of the Sultan of Zanzibar and a British Protected Person. I think it’s fairly clear that he was granted Indonesian citizenship of being adopted by Soetoro.

    I had made the point that McCain was ineligible. According to the Supreme Court Romney would be ineligible as I think his father was a Mexican Citizen at the time of his birth. Good point about Rubio – there is an eligibility issue, as the current Supreme Court might follow dicta of the court in Minor v Happersett 88 US 162 (1874).

    If the Supreme Court followed the 1874 precedent then both Romney & Rubio would be ineligible. However if you read the decision it is clear that the statement on natural born citizens being citizens born to parents who themselves were citizens was not necessary for the decision, i.e. is not binding precedent, not that the Supreme Court is bound by its own decisions anyway, as we saw on Roe v Wade.

    Mrs. Minor is described as a free white woman, born in Missouri to US citizen parents, so far as one can tell. Her citizenship was not in issue. What the court were concerned with was whether she had a constitutional right to vote. Very clearly she did not, indeed the ingenuity of her counsel knew no bounds.

    The Court in effect held that if you wanted to change the Constitution you had to amend it, a very reasonable view point if I may say so. It’s a pity the court in Roe v Wade could not have followed their 1874 brethren! I am still baffled with respect as to how any judge could think that George Washington thought he was putting his name to a document which gave mothers the right to kill their unborn babies.

    I am afraid I was using English usage for dates!

  40. JS  November 9, 2012 at 11:25 am

    I don’t have access to DNA. But I DO have eyes. Mr. Obama bears NO resemblance to Frank Marshall Davis. Joel Gilbert is probably a nice guy, and he makes some good points, but the photos condemn his theory. Unless FMD has ancestors with more delicate features and bone structure than his own, he could not possibly be the biological dad of BHO.

    Twicebitten, you might not be a rocket scientist, but that’s a PLUS in my book, because I happen to know a rocket scientist, and he’s an idiot. My proof? This guy has a PhD, and was hired by Trane in Minnesota to design a screw air compressor for them. It had to be within a certain weight and size, and do X. From his choice of material alone, I knew it would be a disaster. He chose to use magnesium. I was passing through Minneapolis shortly after they tested the prototypes, which of course blew up and burned spectacularly. I found his entire team at the bar, drowning their sorrows. The PhD was dead drunk passed out, and the rest were well along in their cups. But I don’t blame the PhD for the problem. I blame Trane, because they had a chance to hire a world expert (not me) in the field of twin screw compressors, but that guy wasn’t good enough for them, because he did not have a “proper” college degree, whatever that means. What he DID have, besides walls full of certifications and patents, was real-world manufacturing design engineering and machining experience, tons of it. He could have designed the compressor, to much tighter tolerances than the rocket scientist could ever manage, and he would have used the right materials too. He was good enough for the Pentagon. But that wasn’t good enough for Trane, so they went ahead with their rocket scientist and failed. That little story, by the way, pretty much sums up everything about WHY US manufacturing is spiralling down the toilet. Now you know.

  41. JS  November 9, 2012 at 10:38 am

    Mr. Shrimpton,
    I noticed the date at the bottom of your message, properly written as 9th November 2012. None of that Janus-faced computer dating baloney for you! 9th November 2012. There’s no misunderstanding what date you mean. For most countries, including yours, “computerese” has today’s date as 9/11 (day/month). For the US, it’s 11/9 (month/day). And in those last 2 sentences lies THE story of the century. 9/11 = 11/9. Figure out what that means, people, and then you will know everything there is to know about recent history. The only thing I will add to that, is this comment: We got in big trouble before the year 2000, because computer dates were such a mess. And what did we learn from the Y2K experience? Apparently little, and definitely not in time to stop 9/11.

    Now, about Obama and Kenya…If you go back in time long enough, like the great anthropologists Louis & Mary Leakey and their kids did, we ALL come from the area now informally known as Kenya. However, Kenya did not become independent of the UK until 1963, and was NOT known as Kenya before that, so I think that Tomer should study a little history and geography, or at least learn how to use a search engine. Yes, Kenya is an old name, but that’s not what was written on world maps at that time, and that’s what counts.

    I thank God the election is over, for now. I don’t mind the election-related mail in the mailbox outside, nor the email, as I go get it when I feel like it. But the incessant ringing of the phone (I turned off the ringer), and all the yahoos at the front door with their pamphlets, was about to drive me crazy. The local politics was the worst. Again, thank God it’s over. I’m strongly considering putting up No Trespassing and No Soliciting signs. I couldn’t even complain to the cops, as they were some of the worst offenders. There was a referendum about the sheriff’s dept, so both the Yes and No forces were out there on my porch. I kept shades down, and didn’t bother to answer the door for the last few months, but they still disturbed my work just by ringing the doorbell. I didn’t care who won, and I didn’t bother to check on the referendum result until yesterday (Yes side narrowly won). I spent the last several days profitably, designing my writer’s retreat in the back yard. God help anybody who bothers me out there.

  42. TwiceBitten  November 9, 2012 at 7:58 am

    Mr. Shrimpton, you sir, are a fool. In your own terms this entire article is bollocks.

    Let me first state I am no Obama supporter (and neither am I a Mittens supporter…and I voted for neither). I won’t go into my feelings about this whole dog and pony show sham election we just went through and I truly don’t understand why either the whole BHO birther BS…or the actual truth… is so freaking hard for people to understand.

    BHO is indeed a natural born citizen and was indeed born in Hawaii…just not to the father claimed or story boarded. The big mystery and the reason for all the sealed records is pretty simple to see for anyone who’s halfway rational who can put aside whatever their agenda du jour may be.

    BHO’s mama screwed Frank Marshall Davis as a teenager and got pregnant by him. When she told Mommy and Daddy they went batshit because at least one of them would have lost their jobs if it became known their daughter bore the seed of a known CPUSA agitator being watched by multiple government agencies. Not to mention the fact FMD was married at the time and had no desire to lose his wife and family because of this inconvenient indiscretion. Either he approached BHO’s parents or vice versa…doesn’t matter…as the fact was neither wanted this to come to light so a plan was schemed up.

    Daddy conveniently was in charge of the program which brought a group of Kenyan nationals to Hawaii to attend college on Uncle Sam’s dime. BHO, Sr. was one of those students. A deal was cut (or an arm or three twisted) and BHO, Sr. agreed to act as the father for a set period of time. At the agreed time he could divorce and head back to Kenya to his real family with his new degree and dictates by the spooks in charge of him.

    The big deal about the birth ceritificate (and why the actual hard copy will never see daylight) is because the entry under “Father” is either blank or says “unknown.” BHO’s mama split and went to WA or wherever and little Barry was mostly raised by his grandparents as is already known. Little Barry got to spend plenty of time with his real Dad, FMD, having his mushy little young brain filled with plenty of ideas that would make most non-CPUSA Americans blush.

    Then it was off to Indonesia for little Barry after mama hooked up with Mr. Soetoro who adopted him and raised him as a Muslim like all the other little Indonesian boys and girls. This is where the other “continuity” issues come into play and why so many other records are sealed. Once back in the US and off to college Barry chose, as he was entitled to, take advantage of all the perks and funding available to foreign students (how else does a self admitted weed infused substandard student get into anything beyond a community college?). His passport at that time was Indonesian which also explains his ability to travel to Pakistan or whatever that oft quoted birther pap is.

    The fact is all along he was an American citizen too based on his his birth in Hawaii to 2 American citizens…which he conveniently flipped back to when it served him to do so. This may explain the mystery around the CT/multiple SS number thing so many birthers also like to flaunt.

    The secret wine glass DNA stuff spewed by by Mr. Shrimppenis is also utter bollocks. It doesn’t take more than 2 eyes to see the striking and nearly identical, physical similarities between FMD and BHO (eyes, lips, ears, nose, smile, complexion, voice) for anyone willing to open their eyes. It also doesn’t take a genius to see the aspirations and philosophical similarities and “dreams of his father” held by BHO (his real father that is).

    This whole birther thing is little more than subterfuge to stoke the fire under whacked out extremists on the right and throw off the real trail leading to the truth. And the truth is the public knows less about BHO’s real background and upbringing than most do about their insurance agent or hairdresser and it will likely remain that way.

    The only credible attempt to lay all this out, IMHO, was the documentary “Dreams from my real Father” by Joel Gilbert. I’m sure there’s much more to the story that will never be known but its time for a whole lot of people to grow up and realize BHO won twice and will serve both terms in full, for better or worse.

    I believe we will see much to reveal exactly who BHO really is over the next 4 years…as displayed by his actions…not his words. I voted for this man 4 years ago and then I woke up. “Fool me once” as they say. I may not be a rocket scientist but I can indeed identify a pathological liar when one is staring me in the face.

  43. ricohands  November 9, 2012 at 5:05 am

    not a reply*

  44. ricohands  November 9, 2012 at 5:05 am

    Am assuming your comment was aimed at the Shrimp and a reply to yusefguitar?

  45. markboughton  November 9, 2012 at 3:25 am

    Obama is President.

    Your clown Romney lost.

    Get over it.

  46. duay khwaam nap theuu  November 9, 2012 at 1:35 am

    Nonsense. Joe, the ONLY reference to times of war like you refer to is in the Bill of Rights:

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; …

  47. JDB  November 8, 2012 at 10:16 pm

    Michael and Gordon,

    I suggest VT clear up some of these details about our President. I think for the President to continue to get our support we need to know the truth and this fight requires more troops. The otherside already knows and holds it for blackmail. If he is who VT makes him out to be then it’s time for some disclosure.

  48. Worker Bee  November 8, 2012 at 7:29 pm

    Can we go back and revoke the George Wanker Bush “presidency” too, since he never legitimately won an election?

    The “birther” dog doesn’t hunt.

    And Sheriff Arpaio? Did not Gordon Duff call him (and I paraphrase here) an incompetent buffoon?

  49. duay khwaam nap theuu  November 8, 2012 at 5:30 pm

    Drama, drama, drama…

    And this discussion is somehow going to help to stop the murders of innocent women and children? ,,, bring Western soldiers home from Afghanistan? ,,, I would as soon you go home and discuss your royal family’s linage with the people of your country, sir.

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